Protest section 4 Police Bill.

Alegrias1

^No, the honest people on those estates should get together and stop the illegal activity.^

What, like vigilantes?

Is neighborhood watch vigilantes or helping the police.?.

How on earth is that going to work.

No, the honest people on those estates should get together and stop the illegal activity.

What, like vigilantes?

trisher

I used to teach in a school on a notorious council estate. Many of the estate's residents were involved in criminal activities of one kind or another and the police knew where these people lived. Should all the people on the estate have been evicted because of the actions of those people?
We don't treat all people badly because some of them are criminals.

No, the honest people on those estates should get together and stop the illegal activity.
Of course what actually happens is the law abiding residents move out if they can, only to be replaced by trouble makers from elsewhere.
And yes, the councils actually do just that which creates postcode discrimination

I used to teach in a school on a notorious council estate. Many of the estate's residents were involved in criminal activities of one kind or another and the police knew where these people lived. Should all the people on the estate have been evicted because of the actions of those people?
We don't treat all people badly because some of them are criminals.

romaroot

Luckygirl

Born-again Christianity is huge in the Traveller population - the idea of breaking the law would appal them

I'm a Christian, not born again, though.
I have never received a parking ticket, have held crb/ the other one, when work required.
I am a qualified teacher too (Post Compulsory) Not teaching now though.
I worked as a Romany entertainer before covid hit, performed in theatres, festivals, schools, libraries etc.
We'd all pull our vans over at the edge of a field for the night, would go to a local shop, cafe, pub, etc for breakfast or if remote buy stuff from farm shops and cook up some Joey gray or cooked breakfast, clean up and be on our way to the next job.
Now, covid stopped this temporarily, but there will be no chance to travel anymore.
I don't want to be a criminal it doesn't sit right with me, so will travel no more.
It's totally heart breaking.
A horse and vardo are counted as a vehicle, so our beautiful homes will be museum pieces.

Romaroot

We have several horse drawn wagons with ponies like you touring the countryside in this area there is no problem, in fact there was one about half a mile away until 2 weeks ago. Parked next to a roundabout between a housing estate and supermarket, selling hand carved garden ornaments, everybody liked them, there were no issues and the site was left clean. They will be welcomed back in a month or two when the grass has regrown for the ponies

There has never been a problem with this type of Traveller and I would want them to continue their traditions. It’s the travellers that live on closed sites and use that as a cover for criminality that needs to be stopped.

Theres some creepy stuff going on but we might disagree on who is doing it.

You are absolutely right Surfsup and it seems from your description this poster is easily identifiable. Apparently it's someone who calls out people who seem unaware of their own attitudes, in other words anyone who thinks differently to them. Pretty creepy, eh?

surfsup

I don't post very often but do read threads and I am driven to comment that there is particular person who just seems to goad other posters and report and cause trouble constantly. What a way to be. More deserving of our pity.

surfsup if you must post disparaging things about another person on GN (which is by the way against the guidelines) you might at least have the courage to name them, But as it is you are completely wrong anyway. The poster you refer to calls out people who seem unaware of their own attitudes and bias and only reports things whiich are completely unacceptable. Try being as open and honest and a little less preachy and snide.

I don't post very often but do read threads and I am driven to comment that there is particular person who just seems to goad other posters and report and cause trouble constantly. What a way to be. More deserving of our pity.

It is indeed heartbreaking.

Luckygirl

Born-again Christianity is huge in the Traveller population - the idea of breaking the law would appal them

I'm a Christian, not born again, though.
I have never received a parking ticket, have held crb/ the other one, when work required.
I am a qualified teacher too (Post Compulsory) Not teaching now though.
I worked as a Romany entertainer before covid hit, performed in theatres, festivals, schools, libraries etc.
We'd all pull our vans over at the edge of a field for the night, would go to a local shop, cafe, pub, etc for breakfast or if remote buy stuff from farm shops and cook up some Joey gray or cooked breakfast, clean up and be on our way to the next job.
Now, covid stopped this temporarily, but there will be no chance to travel anymore.
I don't want to be a criminal it doesn't sit right with me, so will travel no more.
It's totally heart breaking.
A horse and vardo are counted as a vehicle, so our beautiful homes will be museum pieces.

Born-again Christianity is huge in the Traveller population - the idea of breaking the law would appal them

Registered sites are indeed the answer, but............planning permission is virtually impossible to get. LAs used to be obliged to provide such sites but found themselves between the devil and the deep blue sea. They would find a site and then not be able to get permission from their own planning dept.

There is a long history of the ethnic cleansing of travellers. Because of their lifestyle they have been targetted by many governments in many countries. romaroot thank you for the wedding video-very interesting and touching. Iwill oppose the bill but sadly I think you may be fighting a losing battle.
Land is increasingly becoming just a commodity to be hoarded or traded for its financial value. Travellers present a way of life at odds with the concept of home ownership and the idea of property as wealth. Any alternative way of life undermines this.
Your best way of presenting your case would I think be an educational package which informs and educates about your culture, including appealing things like that video. which presents your lifestyle as something positive of historical interest. At the moment only the negative actions (which may be those of people who are not true travellers) are publicised. I hope you can find someone who will help you do this.

romaroot I sincerely wish there were more places for them to stop, and I'm sure there would be more sympathy and understanding from the local communities if they didn't behave in such an awful way, which does them no favours! The travellers in that article that is.
Presumably the answer is to have a lot more registered sites, but is that what you want?

My father was on his way home from work. A lorry hurtled round the bend, hit the bank and toppled over on to my father’s car. My father and workmate helped get the lorry off as they were frightened the petrol tank might go up in flames. The lorry was being driven by 2 travellers who told my father to follow them back to their camp. It was down a cart track to a field where several caravans were parked. When dad got out a dozen men appeared with cudgels and threatened him so dad got back in his car and drove away. He reported it to the police but when they got there all the travellers and caravans had disappeared. Dad had to pay towards his own repairs and next year his insurance premium had gone up. Plenty of others can tell similar tales.

Why should you be able to drive around and park anywhere you please without a thought for those who own the land.

Ethnic cleansing involves a degree of violence and a plan to wipe out a whole race as Hitler did and as happened in Serbia where people were rounded up taken out and shot. That is not happening here. Travellers are being asked to respect other people’s property. The new law will be on the side of the lawful land owners.

I've done nothing to defend their behaviour at all, and think they should be dealt with accordingly as to the crimes committed.
I did state I wasn't specifically talking about that case, but where do you expect them to go? They can't just suspend in mid air.
It's ok to say somewhere else, but somewhere else doesn't want us either.
I repeat there is no choice for these people.
There is a choice to take up crime, and this should be dealt with by the Police.

romaroot They have a choice about whether to threaten and frighten locals and be antisocial (see what Sago said). Shocking behaviour. It seems you are defending the very criminals you have been saying are in the wrong. These people who you know nothing about and have no connection to.

25Avalon

Why are the emotive words ‘ethic cleansing being used. Look it up and see what ethnic cleansing really is, and this new law is not ethnic cleansing. Go to Serbia and learn what it really is.

What is happening is that travellers who are not a race, although true Romany Gypsies are, will no longer be able to stay for weeks, on village greens, cricket grounds, farmers fields etc whilst civil proceedings take place, but will now be moved on by the police. Have you seen the huge boulders erected everywhere to keep travellers off private property as a consequence because of the damage frequently caused? We have a travellers camp where the resident law abiding travellers were intimidated and bullied by other non law abiding travellers. We don’t want the latter and if the new law stops it I am all in favour.

We are a race, well 2 distinct races actually.
Romany Gypsy, and Irish Travellers, both have their own language, social norms, religion, the usual things that determine race.

We have been ethnically cleansed by gov since we arrived, please don't tell me that 30 years of study and I don't know what ethnic cleansing is.

Trespass isn't a crime at the present, so no laws have been broken here, unless private property. It's not illegal for us to stop on public land.
In fact all are traditional stopping places are still there, not used for anything, but of course fenced off so we can't use it.

Of course I don't condone criminal activity and anti social behaviour but I don't know anyone who has done anything like this. The majority of us are law abiding citizens who integrate with the rest of society well.

I am most definitely defending them, because they have no choice.
I don't defend the mess one little bit as it is totally at odds with our culture.
I wasn't specifically talking about the picture in the article or the people, I don't know them.
But I know that families with children are being targeted by society and new gov laws.
Where are we to go? In houses, emergency accommodation. We don't live in houses if we want to keep our culture, many who did had no choice, either no site provision or not enough money to buy their own land/ and of course pressure from Nimby's.

romaroot I have not suggested you or your family are in any way responsible for criminal activities and agree it must be awful to be falsely linked with these horrible people.
However, you say These travellers included children, I'm glad they finally found somewhere to stop. Provision is absolutely ridiculous, what do people expect.
That sounds as if you are defending them? It's one thing to stop and park up, and quite another to threaten the locals and indulge in criminal behaviour. People should not have to expect that. I'm disappointed if you believe that kind of behaviour is justified after all you've been saying.

The law will stop illegal parking on private and community owned land without having to spend weeks and tax payers money to be enforced.

Hull are very anti traveller, no stopping places, sites and a recently hopefully suspended councillor who was suggesting people went home and made petrol bombs.
These travellers included children, I'm glad they finally found somewhere to stop.
Provision is absolutely ridiculous, what do people expect.
People can't just float in thin air.

Chestnut there are racist comments on here.
and still coming.
My question is the same as before, what has the behaviour of these people got to do with travellers?
The answer is nothing, because it's as alien to us as it is to you.
What has the crime from non traveller society got to do with you? I take it you are a law abiding citizen, so I'd say nothing.

Now, how would you feel if laws were being brought in that said you were responsible, and the rest of society agreed with this.
So, because you are one of these non travellers the laws will mean that to live in your home makes you a criminal and this law says you can be fined, your home taken away and imprisoned.
I think you'd think the world had gone mad, that's where we are atm.