I have just about had enough of these contradictory covid19 regulations.

This is going to be a long post; buckle up, if you’re interested.

I stated that I take what the BMA says publicly with a pinch of salt; I do, and I stand by it, because they were 100% wrong on the spacing of vaccines question, and they could be wrong again. Maybe they are not, but news bulletins and social media are not the vehicles for valid scientific debate.

I haven’t commented on, or denied the content of the posts and links that lead to scientists’ work, because as I have said several times it’s not my speciality.

I pointed out that a graph had been posted that was misleading, because it could lead to people thinking hospital cases were closer to historic highs than is the case.

In reply, I’ve had snide remarks that I don’t know what I’m talking about, that I think I’m better than others. (I paraphrase) I wrote something I immediately took back because it’s not what I meant. Told I was throwing my weight about.

Instead of jumping on bandwagons and defending your rights to have opinions about complex scientific issues, if you’d actually read what I said you might have noticed that I never commented at all on the ridiculous “Freedom Day” idea. At least in Scotland we don’t have to put up with such populist nonsense.

I for one tend to trust what Alegrias says because I know she is a scientist.

Science has more than one branch and each divided into many specialties.

Alegrias1

I'm a scientist, just not a medic.

I think its a mistake to present the BMA's comments on things as being from the medical establishment when they are actually from a Trade Union.

A trade union that has views formed by its members. Doctors. Doctors who, I assume, are keeping abreast of developments and research into a disease that is killing thousands and is not really like diseases that they have encountered before in their careers.

I would also, mistakenly perhaps, assume that their members have concern for their patients, and potential patients, and how well they are able to cope with treating them.

Or are the BMA spokespeople making it up as they go along?

You’re right about that Whitewave.
My daughter is a doctor and has been extremely busy all through the Covid crisis.

growstuff

Well, I will confess that I'm not a medic nor a scientist. However, I'll come clean here. My new partner (and I think we've been together long enough for me to call him that) is a scientist - a professor of biochemistry, who has been working on virus spike proteins for years. His team was given funding to work on Covid, he contributed to some of the Oxford research, which led to the vaccine, and he has work on it published. My (possible) future son-in-law is also a scientist, who leads a team analysing Covid data. Both think it's absolute madness to ignore current warning signs and to have a clean break with all restrictions and mitigations on 19th July. I have no reason to disagree with either of them.

My daughter also a microbiologist thinks the same. My cousin - a doctor seems too busy to comment we hardly ever see her although we have a meet up planned in a couple of weeks.

Or should I also say scientific opinion.

Thank you Whitewave but nonetheless I do trust what your daughter tells you. It’s good to have some facts on here as well as lots of opinions.

Well, I will confess that I'm not a medic nor a scientist. However, I'll come clean here. My new partner (and I think we've been together long enough for me to call him that) is a scientist - a professor of biochemistry, who has been working on virus spike proteins for years. His team was given funding to work on Covid, he contributed to some of the Oxford research, which led to the vaccine, and he has work on it published. My (possible) future son-in-law is also a scientist, who leads a team analysing Covid data. Both think it's absolute madness to ignore current warning signs and to have a clean break with all restrictions and mitigations on 19th July. I have no reason to disagree with either of them.

Alegrias1

Herd immunity is the aim, because that way the virus has reduced vectors for transmission and that is what we want. Ask your medical family members about that and how the phrase has been appropriated by the media to mean "let it rip".

And sorry, but this will be unpopular....everybody has a right to have their say but not everybody has a right to be listened to and respected. Got any views on General Relativity?

I think that you will find that on a site such as this everyone has a right to be listened to and respected. Throwing your weight around means that you won’t be. You last comment was ridiculous.

maddy your view counts exactly the same as mine.

Actually I want to change something I wrote; everyone has the right to be respected; not everyone has the right to have their views on technical matters respected.

I also know that Whitewave’s daughter worked on the vaccine and so trust whatever she says about what her daughter has told her.
Many Gransnetters discuss but do not have absolute knowledge. I’m one of them. We read, hear the news, try to understand, but we’re not experts.
I am of course, only referring to Covid issues here.

Herd immunity is the aim, because that way the virus has reduced vectors for transmission and that is what we want. Ask your medical family members about that and how the phrase has been appropriated by the media to mean "let it rip".

And sorry, but this will be unpopular....everybody has a right to have their say but not everybody has a right to be listened to and respected. Got any views on General Relativity?

I for one tend to trust what Alegrias
says because I know she is a scientist. However she is not a medic. The problem of course, is that Covid19 is a new virus, and nobody knows absolutely, and can only surmise on what is already known about it.

Alegrias1

No, you misunderstand me WWM2

I was commenting on the fact that just because the BMA say it, that doesn't make it a fact. They were wrong about the 3 week gap and they might be wrong again. They might not, but we shouldn't take it gospel just because the BMA say it.

I also said above that I am not commenting on the twitter post because I an not an expert in this field, growstuff's post explains the situation accurately, I think.

I'll not comment on what I studied (and researched in, and taught at Uni) because that usually results in people saying things like "not your area then!" But what I "studied" taught me to question things that need to be questioned and not to make assumptions or jump to conclusions.

Perhaps you will however allow some comments to be posted on here as valid in their field. So in my view the BMA are absolutely correct to point out that (what appears to be a strategy of herd immunity (my opinion not the BMA) government policy will almost certainly increase hospital, admissions and the problems that result from that.

I also think that as a novel virus it is a mistake to allow it to spread unfettered through our young.

I guess that those commenting on the fact that it is not in you field of study have a point.

My family is a family of scientists they include a wide field from doctors to micro-biologist and genetic engineering, from environmentalists to geologists amongst others, and have worked in their field throughout their entire working lives since leaving university, all in different areas. They respect each other, and allow that those working in a particular field have the greater knowledge. Other than that we all accept that every single one of us have the right to be listened to and respected in our views without being constantly told that they know best because they are the scientist.

Whether you are a scientist or not any study at degree level makes you question everything that you are reading, not to make assumptions or jump to conclusions, you are not alone in science with that.

Some members of the BMA do publish peer reviewed research.

Yes they do. And that's what we should be thinking about. I expect Prof Whitty and Prof Vallance do just that.

Death and long-term health damage isn't very good for us either!

Some members of the BMA do publish peer reviewed research.

I think everybody is aware of the harms of lockdown and other restrictions but pretending there aren't problems won't make the problems go away. It won't stop long-term damage to health from Covid either.

growstuff

Alegrias1

Whitewavemark2

Hospitals getting busier.

One thing I learnt in the subject I studied was never to take data at face value when you are not given context.

But hospitals are beginning to get busier again with Covid patients.

There was a post on Facebook yesterday that my local hospital had double the amount of Covid patients as they had a couple of days before, asking for people to be careful. But even at double, it was 10% of the total during the second wave.

Of course the hospitals getting busier is not good, of course we need to be cautious. But this constant climate of doom and gloom is not good for us, as a society. Everything is not the end of the world.

I agree growstuff, but the BMA speaks as a Trade Union. They are not the medical establishment who publish peer reviewed research and comment. They represent the interests and views of their members.

The BMA members might think that the best thing we could all do about Covid is to stay indoors for the next 6 months and wait it out. That's a view, but it doesn't take into account all the other harms that might flow from that. (I know that's not what they're saying, before anyone comes along to tell me)

I'm no fan of the way the government is handling this but people who are held up as "experts" in the field are very often not.

Alegrias1

Whitewavemark2

Hospitals getting busier.

One thing I learnt in the subject I studied was never to take data at face value when you are not given context.

But hospitals are beginning to get busier again with Covid patients.

Alegrias1

I'm a scientist, just not a medic.

I think its a mistake to present the BMA's comments on things as being from the medical establishment when they are actually from a Trade Union.

But BMA members are medics, most of them working on the frontline.

Whitewavemark2

Hospitals getting busier.

One thing I learnt in the subject I studied was never to take data at face value when you are not given context.

No, you misunderstand me WWM2

I was commenting on the fact that just because the BMA say it, that doesn't make it a fact. They were wrong about the 3 week gap and they might be wrong again. They might not, but we shouldn't take it gospel just because the BMA say it.

I also said above that I am not commenting on the twitter post because I an not an expert in this field, growstuff's post explains the situation accurately, I think.

I'll not comment on what I studied (and researched in, and taught at Uni) because that usually results in people saying things like "not your area then!" But what I "studied" taught me to question things that need to be questioned and not to make assumptions or jump to conclusions.

I think spacing out the vaccines was a gamble but sometimes, in an unprecedented situation you need to take gambles and luckily it seems to have worked. We need to garner information about the virus from every source possible and then throw in a bit of common sense and follow our instincts.

Hospitals getting busier.