A question

MaizieD

^ As I said, people are so frightened of the mess Labour will make they keep voting Tory!^

And I say that that is a load of tribalist bollocks, Chestnut. There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever to support that statement.

Of course MaizieD you are not in the least tribalist with your brand of politics.?

Chestnut is completely correct, why does anyone think people keep on voting for the Conservatives for so many years? Labour are still well behind in the polls, and will have to do something different to win back voters for the future.
The public think the government have handled the pandemic well, any government would have struggled but if Corbyn
had been PM we wouldn’t have had a fast roll out of vaccines ( he would have waited for the EU to roll out) and he may not have given the go-ahead and all the spending that entailed to the development of AZ.
Whatever individuals on forums think, if the public thought the government was incompetent then they would be behind in the polls, not well ahead.

MaizieD

^ As I said, people are so frightened of the mess Labour will make they keep voting Tory!^

And I say that that is a load of tribalist bollocks, Chestnut. There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever to support that statement.

No, just everyone voting Tory, no other evidence at all!!

The UK has a first past the post system, we all know that.

Please do not constantly talk-down to posters who do not happen to share your political views MaizieD, it does you no favours.

Chestnut

MayBee70 - hardly true. But constantly vilifying Boris and the Tories hardly stands up because we have no idea what sort of mess Labour would have made of it. Maybe much worse. As I said, people are so frightened of the mess Labour will make they keep voting Tory!

I can't understand this attitude Chestnut, of course it stands up. I'm not being argumentative or personal, but I really can't understand it. Many of us believe that the Johnson Government has handled the pandemic appallingly. So, of course we're going to vilify him; personally I think he is a self serving, lying charlatan with no concern for the people he is meant to be governing.

Just because somebody else might have done even worse - which we don't know of course, its just an opinion - we're not going to let the government off the hook. We must hold them to account.

As for GG13's question about how they are still ahead in the polls; well that is what this thread is all about, isn't it?

Chestnut

Thank you GrannyGravy13. They just can't accept that the Tories keep winning elections and are staying ahead of Labour despite everything.

The tories didn't win the 2017 election, nor the 2010 election, so that's only two out of the four recent ones. Before that I seem to recall 13 years of perfectly competent Labour governments. I don't know what you're on, but it seems to be having an effect...

A reminder of Peter Obourne's list of Johnson's lies

boris-johnson-lies.com/

The message will get through.

How do you explain that the Conservatives including Mr.Johnson are consistently ahead in the polls (last time I looked)

I'd get banned from Gnet if I told you. It would be far more 'charming' than my response to Chestnut

You cannot constantly dismiss an seventy nine seat majority just because you do not like the Government of the day.

Yes I can. (though I don't see what that has to do with the topic of this thread). It doesn't represent the majority of voters; as I keep reminding you.

Thank you GrannyGravy13. They just can't accept that the Tories keep winning elections and are staying ahead of Labour despite everything.

I said Brexit AND the pandemic.

Brexit was absolutely self inflicted and just more evidence of Johnson's incompetence. There would have been no problem with extending the Transition stage, possibly indefinitely, giving the government space to deal with the pandemic.

As it is, Brexit is a complete and utter mess and the government's handling of the pandemic has been shambolic. Three times now that government's incompetence has let the virus rip through the population when they had had plenty of time (and advice) to do something to stop it.

It's indefensible.

MaizieD

^ As I said, people are so frightened of the mess Labour will make they keep voting Tory!^

And I say that that is a load of tribalist bollocks, Chestnut. There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever to support that statement.

Charming!!

How do you explain that the Conservatives including Mr.Johnson are consistently ahead in the polls (last time I looked)

You cannot constantly dismiss an seventy nine seat majority just because you do not like the Government of the day.

Personally I would be happy to see a credible centrist party, unfortunately that’s not likely to happen any time soon.

^ As I said, people are so frightened of the mess Labour will make they keep voting Tory!^

And I say that that is a load of tribalist bollocks, Chestnut. There is absolutely no evidence whatsoever to support that statement.

From twitter - I wholeheartedly agree

“Yesterday, Angela Merkel received a 6 minute applause from the German nation after 18 years of leadership. She gave no dodgy contracts to friends or family and lived in a small apartment. Not once was there a mention of #sleaze. Why can't we just have 1 honest, decent politician?”

Alegrias1

He brought BREXIT on himself and all the rest of us. He doesn't get brownie points for managing that, sorry.

Other leaders? Ardern. Biden. Merkel.

He hasn’t managed Brexit? he hasn’t even understood it!

MayBee70 - hardly true. But constantly vilifying Boris and the Tories hardly stands up because we have no idea what sort of mess Labour would have made of it. Maybe much worse. As I said, people are so frightened of the mess Labour will make they keep voting Tory!

I think there’s been some sort of mass hypnotism taken place whereby, no matter what the government and it’s members do, the word vaccination just has to be mentioned and everything is instantly forgotten. Like those hypnotism shows where people go onstage and do silly things but the minute the hypnotist clicks his fingers everything is forgotten.

He brought BREXIT on himself and all the rest of us. He doesn't get brownie points for managing that, sorry.

Other leaders? Ardern. Biden. Merkel.

MaizieD There are other national leaders around who have dealt far more effectively with the pandemic.
I said Brexit AND the pandemic. Both major issues which require major attention!
Maybe you can name these leaders who have done so well just dealing with the one issue.

LoveOc I am not sure that anyone on this thread has ridiculed or insulted on a personal level, it is just a question of trying to establish how far people are prepared to shelve their own standards in order to keep their party of choice in government. I do think that when posters start complaining about other posters it is all about deflection, avoiding answering the original question.

When people ridicule and insult on a personal level, do they not realize it says everything about them but nothing about who they are ridiculing?

Chestnut

We will never know what kind of mess Labour would have made of dealing with Brexit and the pandemic at the same time. To be honest, it's probably the most demanding period in history since the last war, so would anyone have got it right? Being PM during a period like that would be enough to bring most people to their knees. Boris still seems to be standing ?

I think you just have very low standards/expectations, Chestnut.

There are other national leaders around who have dealt far more effectively with the pandemic.

Boris's holiday - not illegal just another 'oversight' (to be fair a PM should do better, but then we knew he is a bit 'cavalier)'

Sorry, Holysox, but why should we 'be fair' to Johnson? He's been in politics, as Mayor of London and as an MP and Minister of State, for a considerable time now. He should be well aware of the rules. And as PM, the one who supposedly wrote this in his Foreword to the Ministerial Code:

To fulfil this mission, and win back the trust of the British people, we must uphold the very highest standards of propriety – and this code sets out how we must do so.

There must be no bullying and no harassment; no leaking; no breach of collective responsibility. No misuse of taxpayer money and no actual or perceived conflicts of interest.

^The precious principles of public life enshrined
in this document – integrity, objectivity, accountability, transparency, honesty and leadership in the public interest – must be honoured at all times; as must the political impartiality of our much admired civil service.^

we must surely expect him to respect the code and set the highest example of the qualities required?

We will never know what kind of mess Labour would have made of dealing with Brexit and the pandemic at the same time. To be honest, it's probably the most demanding period in history since the last war, so would anyone have got it right? Being PM during a period like that would be enough to bring most people to their knees. Boris still seems to be standing ?

And lastly - I wouldn't trust them to deliver the milk.

Patel's checks and balances were in place last year, in the past any other person would already have resigned or been sacked. Johnson doesn't think its a big deal.

I think quibbling over "has been spent" and "have committed to spending" is scraping the barrel a bit

Boris's holiday - if paid for by a supporter, needs to be declared to avoid accusations of impropriety. Guess what? There have been accusations of impropriety. I don't want my PM to be cavalier. Which is code for "improper and careless".

Dido Harding has no credibility in the world of business outside the Tory party and the Jockey Club. I speak from experience.

However, we seem to agree on Gove

Sorry quote thing didn't work last post was response to Alegrias and thanks for list. Thanks to * MaizieD* as well for her reminders.