A question

Some good points.

I read Ms Patel may be facing a court hearing regarding constructive dismissal over her bullying. I hate bullies and if proven hopefully this will address this! Checks and balances.

I have no idea how a givernment can spend £37 bn on a software package / tracking system in just a couple of months but found this link.
fullfact.org/online/37bn-test-trace-spending/
This makes sense. It's a budget, much not spent. I would expect rushing a new system into operation will have teething problems... so no surprises there. Looks like the budget is being used effectively now with recent events in the North West.

Dido Harding was chairwoman of NHS Improvement with a background in business so could be seen as a reasonable choice - at the time.

Boris's holiday - not illegal just another 'oversight' (to be fair a PM should do better, but then we knew he is a bit 'cavalier)'

Don't like Gove. He's a 'squeaky clean' creep so happy to think the worst in him ... but I could be wrong.

Really playing Devil's advocate here... but I'm not convinced our government has lost the plot completely. The big challenge now is to restore 'normal life', get the economy back to strength whilst minimising loss of life to COVID. Don't envy their job but perhaps we need a 'strong' government to make these difficult decisions. Maybe that's what the OP question really is - do we have confidence in our government. I'm still happy they will deliver despite their faults.

Law breaking:

Unlawful (i.e illegal) prorogation of Parliament in Oct 2019

Unlawful award of PPE contracts and unlawful disregard of procurement procedures

(lots of detail here: goodlawproject.org/ )

Flouting the Freedom of Information rules

www.opendemocracy.net/en/freedom-of-information/uk-parliament-to-investigate-michael-goves-orwellian-foi-unit/

Well there's a long list HolySox so I'll just cite the ones I can do off the top of my head.

Bullying - Patel shown in an inquiry to have broken the Ministerial Code by bullying her staff, normally a resigning affair. She didn't resign, still in office.

Rule Breaking - Johnson incorrectly declared a holiday to the Caribbean that was paid for by a supporter.

Waste of public money - a £37bn Test and Trace system that doesn't work, when very effective local systems were already in place.

Nepotism - giving the responsibility for that Track and Trace to Tory Peer Dido Harding who showed no aptitude for the post and has failed miserably.

I'm not sure how I'd class Gove using money targeted for COVID surveys to ask about attitudes to independence in Scotland? Utter disregard for any rules, maybe?

That'll do to be going on with.

Educate me.

On what facts are the OPs question based. There has been a lot of accusations and conjecture in the media. Has any real wrongdoing been proven?

We all saw Cummings lie last year and this was clearly wrong, though technically he didn't hold office(?)

There was an enquiry into Boris's decorating expenses. Apparently the over budget part did get paid for but not by the tax payer.

Clear evidence of Matt Hancock's impropriety so he resigned.

Various enquiries into awarding of contracts - not aware of any breach of the law.

Giving jobs to mates - what do people expect? Wouldn't you appoint someone who thinks like you, someone you could trust? All governments do this.

Waste of tax-payers money - is this with regard to the money the government has been throwing at COVID? How do you fight a pandemic?

As I said I keep a cursory view on politics so if I've missed something please enlighten. I believe there are appropriate checks and balances such that we keep honest and fair government.

Alegrias1 if those are people's views about the Conservatives, there really isn't any point in trying to reason with them.

No, I think you're right Call. Apologies foxie48! That'll teach me.

Now, let's turn this into a teaching moment. When you get something wrong, own it and apologise. Don't keep saying just wait, it'll be fine

My last 2 paras still hold though.

But foxie48's polite post makes one rather important statement; that all the parties are arguing about policies. Don’t you expect that? Don’t you expect a properly functioning political party to have discussions about their policies, especially when we are at least 3 years from another GE?

I thought foxie48's post said the opposite, that they are arguing about things other than policy:

We need strong and effective political parties but sadly they all seem to spend more time arguing amongst themselves than they do thinking about policy.

I could have misunderstood.

foxie48. I totally take your point about offering an alternative.

But as the OP I think that it is essential to point out the shortcomings of political parties. Of course supporters will not like the fact that the party is being criticised, particularly if they will have real difficulty defending the actions of the party.

Not to bring theses issues to our attention will not make any sense on a political forum as at its heart politics is about alternative world views and critique of one point of view as against another.

That is at its simplest. But of course it goes far deeper than that and impinges on our fundamental beliefs of morals, religion, humanity etc

I understand that what you are talking about is tribal. And I also understand that unless one has an open mind it is very difficult to change. So I don’t think that criticism turns people off - it is in fact their tribal loyalties that brings them together. You can see this time after time on GN.

But for those interested in politics it is a fascinating exercise to look for that final argument. Haven’t found it yet though?

I expect none of us on this platform have any way of giving anybody any reason for voting Labour when they are considered by government supporters to be such electoral poison. Apologies to any Labour activists on the thread!

But foxie48's polite post makes one rather important statement; that all the parties are arguing about policies. Don’t you expect that? Don’t you expect a properly functioning political party to have discussions about their policies, especially when we are at least 3 years from another GE?

Pre-covid, when we used to have Party Conferences, the Tory faithful would turn up and get told what the party policies are. The Labour faithful, and the others as far as I know, would turn up and decide what the policies are.

So far on this thread we have learnt that government supporters:
Think all politicians are liars
Don’t care what the government do as long as they stay in power
Think the worst thing about Boris is that he went over budget on decorating
Think we’re way ahead of the rest of the world on vaccinations, or those countries who are ahead aren’t worth worrying about anyway.

If these are the attitudes and beliefs of government supporters, and these are the reasons they’re voting Conservative, they’re going to get argued with and told that they are wrong.

Foxie48 has got the message across in a very polite way. Well done!

Good post Foxie48

I don't vote Conservative, I'm a wishy washy white left of centre liberal, totally sick of BJ and his cronyism but didn't vote Labour at the last election. Instead of giving people grief for voting Conservative, why not give them a reason for voting Labour which is a positive message rather than an attack on the Govt. We need strong and effective political parties but sadly they all seem to spend more time arguing amongst themselves than they do thinking about policy.

Good grief, foxie48, that's far too sensible

Late to the party but pleased Hancock has resigned (BJ should have sacked him for delaying), tbh I'm not the slightest bit interested in his private affairs but if it spills over into his public life, that's another matter. I think the OP has missed the point though. Attacking people who vote conservative doesn't change things. For whatever reason the electorate are unwilling to vote labour in enough numbers for them to be in power. That's the real problem and attacking confirmed Conservative voters cetainly won't get them to change their mind. I read some of the comments on here and they are just plain nasty, really not a good way of winning friends and influencing people!
I don't vote Conservative, I'm a wishy washy white left of centre liberal, totally sick of BJ and his cronyism but didn't vote Labour at the last election. Instead of giving people grief for voting Conservative, why not give them a reason for voting Labour which is a positive message rather than an attack on the Govt. We need strong and effective political parties but sadly they all seem to spend more time arguing amongst themselves than they do thinking about policy.

Good riddance to Mr Hancock. Not a Conservative voter. But I don't think the constant ridicule and insults towards those who do vote Tory aren't helping. Demeaning people's intelligence doesn't work. In fact it might have the opposite effect.

I am pleased Sajid Javid has been appointed. I realise this will anger a few on here. However, this is my opinion. I am not insulting anyone who does not agree with me. I agree with Matt Hancock's decision in resigning. However, he should never have been allowed to make the decision for himself.

Sorry anti Brexit I meant!

Hunt wouldn’t do it even if they asked him Whitewavemark2. He’s both pro Brexit and pro NHS (comparatively), he has too much integrity to join the current crew. No doubt he’s biding his time until Boris is hoist by his own petard, which won’t be long.

All the ducks in a row for the process of privatisation of the NHS.

JPMorgan - massive player in private Health

Savid Javid - employed as a senior advisor to JP Morgan.
Javid made his money as an investment banker, knows nothing about health, has not shone at any government post he has held.

Dido in the wings.

The most obvious and sensible choice would have been Hunt. But that doesn’t fit the agenda.

25Avalon

Lucca would you rather he was still there? I thought not. I reckon Javid should do a good job. We shall see.

I would wait and see if I were you.

Lucca would you rather he was still there? I thought not. I reckon Javid should do a good job. We shall see.

25Avalon

So he has done the honourable thing and fallen on his sword. A UK Gov Poll showed 49% wanted him to resign and a number of conservative MP’s felt the same.

I’m sorry to say but it looks like the words honourable and Matt Hancock should not be seen in the same sentence.

Sajid Javid is now Health Secretary, lemongrove

It’s been all over the news Kali
Probably the best outcome, resigning is always better than being given the sack.His position was untenable, there wasn’t an alternative.I imagine it may all come as a relief, his job over the last year and a half must have been hellish.
Wonder who will replace him.?

Just saying its not worth it, we might as well give up and just not bother with voting at all.

I know, that is why I keep banging my head, generally but not always, Alegrias

I would not vote for Plaid, however.

just announced