A question

Bingham certainly wasn't working for or with Mr Hancock. From what I see of Bingham, more likely the other way round. ?

IMO she did it because it needed doing. We could all learn from Dame Kate.

GillT57

Good try. I truly despair of the indoctrination and tribalism that causes people to vote for this disgusting corrupt and ineffective administration. Is it really worth putting up with this shower who obviously despise the electorate just because you have always voted this way? It is laughable to hear Tory politicians answer "but vaccines!" as a reply to everything. The vaccine program was a huge success due to.the hard working the NHS and volunteers and does not excuse or counterbalance the lies,cheating and corruption elsewhere. I am astounded that a group of decent law abiding people are willing to accept behaviour in their government that they would not accept in their family, employers or friends.

Was this aimed at me? As I said I'm feeling a little persecuted. "My barely adequate psychic defences are crumbling." ( The Young Ones 1982)
I used to vote Labour as that was what the working class did. Then we got mortgages so became middle class (like Alf Garnet) so voted Tory. But Labour became middle class New Labour so we voted Labour again. Then the banks crashed and we all lost money. All except for the banks who were baled out by the tax payer so we voted Tory again. Actually, voted Liberal at one point as I thought proportional representation could lead to a more balanced government and get us away from 2 party politics. Nick Clegg screwed that up so back to the lesser of 2 evils, it seems.
I accept there will always be a level of underhandedness in government (money and power corrupt) but still have faith that there are sufficient checks and balances in place to ensure this is not only limited but that Britain maintains a relatively honest government that serves the British people. If politicians get it wrong let's call them out! But to villify a whole government over a few individuals is unwarranted.

surfsup

25Avalon

And Tony Blair was a wonderful man!

Ah yes Tony Blair. The epitome of truthfulness and honour - not!!

25Avalon was being sarcastic I’m sure. Her previous posts reflect this.

Alegrias1

Google Kate Bingham. She did the work.

Not government. Not even paid.

I don’t need to google anything. Matt Hancock is part of the government. Kate Bingham was working with/ for him. She certainly wouldn’t have been doing that unpaid, if she had no faith in them. That would be ridiculous!

25Avalon

And Tony Blair was a wonderful man!

Ah yes Tony Blair. The epitome of truthfulness and honour - not!!

Google Kate Bingham. She did the work.

Not government. Not even paid.

Alegrias1

HolySox

Alegrias thanks for the chart showing how far the UK is in terms of vaccination compared to the rest of the EU. Call me misguided then, but Boris seems to be doing o.k. in this respect, which is probably the single most impotant issue of the day. COVID certainly put Brexit into perspective.

A picture paints a thousand words. Tortoise and the hare. Etc etc.

It doesn't matter how often Johnson turns up to bump elbows with some unsuspecting vaccine candidate, it didn't have much to do with him. The much maligned Mr Hancock found the money and Kate Bingham did the work.

Yes, you’ve already said, it was Matt Hancock and Kate Bingham. This is the government isn’t it?

Toadinthehole

*Alegrias*. You just said “ we’re doing really well”. That’s progress! I’ll sleep well tonight?

But I didn't say it's because of Boris or that we're doing better than everybody else.

You have no evidence that any other party could ever be as totally incompetent as the Tories so obviously are.

Their reputation (if they ever had one) for competence and credibility is long gone.

Chestnut

MaizieD

I don't think you'll get much response to your question, Wwmk2.

As silence is usually held to mean 'consent' we might assume that they are perfectly OK with the things you list.

You could say it's a choice between that or the total incompetence of the other side, who might mean well but don't seem capable of steering the ship. I think most voters know that and take the lesser of two evils.

Chestnut, ??? another brave soul dipping her toe in the water!

Those of us who consider this government to be pretty appalling have, if you look back, actually stated where they have done something right.

For instance, I remember posting that Johnson had been right to appoint Kate Binghamj, a science graduate with thirty years experience in investing in pharmaceuticals, to run the vaccine programme. They also did well to pass the delivery of the vaccine to local NHS and councils, rather than attempt another disastrous national scheme run by expensive consultants.

We did give them credit for that right decision. Unfortunately it has been just about the only right decision amongst so many dreadful decisions, driven by an obsession with brexit, an inclination to give taxpayers money to "friends" and Tory donors and monumental incompetence.

Alegrias. You just said “ we’re doing really well”. That’s progress! I’ll sleep well tonight?

MaizieD

I don't think you'll get much response to your question, Wwmk2.

As silence is usually held to mean 'consent' we might assume that they are perfectly OK with the things you list.

You could say it's a choice between that or the total incompetence of the other side, who might mean well but don't seem capable of steering the ship. I think most voters know that and take the lesser of two evils.

25Avalon

And only by 0.1%!

Its 2% in fact.

And all this started when someone posted how far ahead of the rest of the world we are. Well we're not. We're doing really well, but why is is always necessary to try to make out we're better than everybody else?

Lemon grove I agree. I always appreciate your posts. They are usually well worded and logical.

lemongrove

Guess what Gill....I despair of the indoctrination and tribalism from those who are always opposing anything at all that a Conservative government, including the present one does.However, we are all human and have our political/ religious etc biases.If we could keep the debate non personal to posters on here and stick to comments about politicians it would be a good thing, but some just cannot do that it seems.

?

HolySox

Alegrias1

The current government are certainly not doing a good job supporting the NHS.

I think that's what people mean when they get exasperated with some of the attitudes on here. Some minister telling us they're doing a good job supporting the NHS doesn't mean that they are actually supporting the NHS.

BTW - I acknowledged that the vaccine program is going well. I just don't think that has anything to do with Johnson. You know that management thing? Lead, follow, or get out of the way. At least he got out of the way.

So it goes wrong it's the fault of the government (comment on track and trace earlier) but if it goes right it is despite the government. Think that just about proves my point.

No HolySox, that's not the case.

There are posters here who could quote you chapter and verse about how the NHS had been affected by the last decade or so of Tory government. And that doesn't mean that the Labour governments did any better, but the Tory one certainly didn't get things moving in the right direction.

When you say "Boris is doing a good job with vaccines", he isn't. Johnson is not the government incarnate.

Guess what Gill....I despair of the indoctrination and tribalism from those who are always opposing anything at all that a Conservative government, including the present one does.However, we are all human and have our political/ religious etc biases.If we could keep the debate non personal to posters on here and stick to comments about politicians it would be a good thing, but some just cannot do that it seems.

And only by 0.1%!

Casdon

Holysox you do know that Hungary, which is in the EU is ahead of the UK for total population fully vaccinated already I assume. We aren’t that wonderful.

Come on Casdon ?Hungary has a population of under....
10 million!

Good try. I truly despair of the indoctrination and tribalism that causes people to vote for this disgusting corrupt and ineffective administration. Is it really worth putting up with this shower who obviously despise the electorate just because you have always voted this way? It is laughable to hear Tory politicians answer "but vaccines!" as a reply to everything. The vaccine program was a huge success due to.the hard working the NHS and volunteers and does not excuse or counterbalance the lies,cheating and corruption elsewhere. I am astounded that a group of decent law abiding people are willing to accept behaviour in their government that they would not accept in their family, employers or friends.

Galaxy

They just hold different views to you Holysox that's all.

I appreciate that but feel a sense of persecution in suggesting this government may not be as corrupt and incompetent as the OPs original question implies. Loaded question really and a direct insult to any Tory follower to suggest they condone corruption and dishonesty.

Galaxy

They just hold different views to you Holysox that's all.

Exactly, they have different views to Holysox. I looked back over the thread and couldn’t see anything undermining any other poster from her.

Alegrias1

The current government are certainly not doing a good job supporting the NHS.

I think that's what people mean when they get exasperated with some of the attitudes on here. Some minister telling us they're doing a good job supporting the NHS doesn't mean that they are actually supporting the NHS.

BTW - I acknowledged that the vaccine program is going well. I just don't think that has anything to do with Johnson. You know that management thing? Lead, follow, or get out of the way. At least he got out of the way.

So it goes wrong it's the fault of the government (comment on track and trace earlier) but if it goes right it is despite the government. Think that just about proves my point.

They just hold different views to you Holysox that's all.