A question

Covid, added to Brexit- certainly has! In short, the first made the seond even worse, many times so.

Alegrias thanks for the chart showing how far the UK is in terms of vaccination compared to the rest of the EU. Call me misguided then, but Boris seems to be doing o.k. in this respect, which is probably the single most impotant issue of the day. COVID certainly put Brexit into perspective.

growstuff wants to praise the NHS for the vaccination programme but, presumably, does not want to give credit to the government. As I understand it, the government invested in the vaccine programme from the beginning, ensuring every effort was made to develop vaccines, and also secured purchasing contracts ... long before the EU got it's act together. And isn't the NHS a public body so again credit to the government. I am thankful for my vaccine, for my family who are now vaccinated. Hopefully we can unlock the economy completely soon, and work towards getting 'normal' life back.

Alegrias it was Holysox who brought up Tony Blair. At each election I examine the party politics, leaders, and local contenders before I decide for whom to vote.

MaisieD I was responding to the last part of Holysox post. Perhaps you would like to shout at her as well?

To say Blair was not as bad is in your opinion. I don’t agree. I am also sick of all these disparaging remarks from people who like nothing better than to put the government down all the time.

You seem very keen to bring Tony Blair into the conversation 25Avalon . I don't think anybody has said he's squeaky clean, have they? Also, he hasn't been PM for 14 years .

I will admit that I will have certain unkind thoughts about people who vote Tory now, and continue to say they do and there's no option. Voting Tory has always been a sign that they think entirely differently to me about how the country should be run, and what was fair and what wasn't. OK so far. That's not a problem.

But anybody who now thinks its fine to support this government is a bit.... misguided?

Smileless2012

Being judgemental about the government is one thing Whitewavemark, being judgemental about other posters because of the opinions they hold, is totally different, unacceptable, unnecessary and does nothing to enhance the discussion.

?

25Avalon

I wouldn’t call Tony Blair squeaky clean. He lied to us all and sent our boys to war unnecessarily. Adultery and mistresses have been around politicians for hundreds of years, as I discovered reading the biographies of various historical leaders. Just some manage to keep it quieter than others. Very disillusioning.

WE RE NOT TALKING ABOUT POLITICIANS AND MISTRESSES. That's irrelevant to the thread.

We are talking about the things listed in the OP:

law-breaking, rule-breaking, dishonesty, deceit, cronyism, nepotism, incompetence, bullying, conflict of interest or waste of tax-payers money

No, Blair is not squeaky clean, but he and his government were nothing like as bad as our current one. Nor were Brown's, Cameron's or May's governments. Nor were the many that preceded them post WW2.

The question is, how much can supporters of the current government tolerate before they say 'Enough is enough'?

Being judgemental about the government is one thing Whitewavemark, being judgemental about other posters because of the opinions they hold, is totally different, unacceptable, unnecessary and does nothing to enhance the discussion.

I wouldn’t call Tony Blair squeaky clean. He lied to us all and sent our boys to war unnecessarily. Adultery and mistresses have been around politicians for hundreds of years, as I discovered reading the biographies of various historical leaders. Just some manage to keep it quieter than others. Very disillusioning.

GrannyGravy13

I wouldn’t insult/slur anyone due to their voting intentions/history, I am just not that sort of person.

I am.

I would definitely sit in judgement on someone who voted for someone who supports privatisation of the NHS or has a proven track record of corruption or lies or division to the detriment of the U.K. or other things. Just as I would judge someone whose ethos was of honesty, and integrity.

I am intrigued that finding out a politician is an adulterer is no longer considered an issue! Let's face it Boris clearly lacks moral fibre in this department but this country voted for him as Prime Minister. The current outcry over Matt Hancock is he didn't practice social distancing when snogging his mistress not that he has been found out as an adulterer.
Maybe it's because Boris is 'what you see is what you get', warts and all that voters have confidence in him. I get the impression he is committed to serving the British people despite his faults. Perhaps the British public are fed up of smooth talking, squeaky clean politicians like May, Cameron and Blair.

is it personal to say that if you condone, you become part of it.

I don't think that is a personal comment.

If a person doesn't condone certain actions, but still supports those doing the actions and has good reasons for doing so, then fair enough.
If they do condone the actions, then of course they are part of it.

How could it not be? Yes, I agree about personal comments, 100%.

And yet, without being 'personal'- if someone continues to support a Governement, and individuals within, who have been shown to act in bad faith, fraudulently even, provenly so when it comes to giving contracts to 'mates' and Tory donors, etc. constant lying and deceiving, and going against all guidelines set by themselves- then is it personal to say that if you condone, you become part of it.

I wouldn’t insult/slur anyone due to their voting intentions/history, I am just not that sort of person.

Smileless2012

Yes Whitewavemark your opinion and all others are doing is giving theirs and thankfully there are some who are capable of doing so without resorting to personal judgemental comments.

I think that if you think about it, every post is being judgemental when talking about this government.

Yes I agree lemongrove.

Yes Whitewavemark your opinion and all others are doing is giving theirs and thankfully there are some who are capable of doing so without resorting to personal judgemental comments.

Smileless2012

A good post @12.52 GG13 "I am not going to insult every Conservative MP or voter as I know that there are plenty of good ones out there"; well said.

It's far more beneficial to any discussion if one can express their opinion/point of view without insulting those they disagree with.

As you say Groundhog Day lemongrove. Is it any wonder that those whose opinions differ to that of the OP and the majority of posters so far on this thread, don't bother to participate.

??
I think it reflects the cancel culture much talked about on social media Smileless.

lemongrove

Ends, not spends ? and ww’s post not Maizie’s....I should have used the quote facility.

Not it doesn’t it ends with my opinion about supporters, who are willing to support Johnson’s government so similar to the sort of tin pot corrupt governments we see throughout world? To my mind those who support such behaviour should not be surprised when their own moral baggage is questioned.

gg13 has already indicated that she doesn’t support Hancock, and also that her support is not necessarily god given if she considers that the government is beyond the pale.

That is exactly my sentiments if this was a party in power that I had voted for. Nothing on this earth would make me vote for such an abysmal shower again, even if it meant I voted for an alternative that did not entirely fulfil my needs.

A good post @12.52 GG13 "I am not going to insult every Conservative MP or voter as I know that there are plenty of good ones out there"; well said.

It's far more beneficial to any discussion if one can express their opinion/point of view without insulting those they disagree with.

As you say Groundhog Day lemongrove. Is it any wonder that those whose opinions differ to that of the OP and the majority of posters so far on this thread, don't bother to participate.

Just a bit more on my constituency MP/MSPs.

Neither of them represent the parties in power in either the Westminster or Scottish governments. If either of them was Tory, I'm not sure I would feel the same way. I would probably not be very happy with them, because even if they were representing the constituency I'd think they were so far removed from my attitude to politics that they could never represent me.

Ends, not spends ? and ww’s post not Maizie’s....I should have used the quote facility.

Toadinthehole ...spot on.??
GG13 ....it’s very patient of you to explain ( when there is no need to) why you vote as you do to a group of complete strangers on a forum, because you won’t really be listened to as witness the above post which spends with an insult to you.
It’s always Groundhog Day on threads about the government or Brexit and has been for years and years.

I always put my X in the box of the person who I think will do best for my constituency, currently they are Conservative.

I see why you do this, GG13. We all would like to think that our MP is working for their constituency. When they do, and you feel that they are trustworthy, it's a good thing. I note that Alegrias is happy with an MP she didn't vote for because they are working for their constituency.

BUT, and I think it's a big 'but', if the party your MP belongs to is in government, and the government is as corrupt and self serving as our current government, and your MP has to support them, even if what they do is not in the best interests of the country, or their constituents, then there must surely be a point at which the MP's 'good' is overwhelmed by the government's 'bad', surely? (I'm trying to make a general point here, not specific to your circumstances)

How much are you prepared to tolerate? Would you vote tory again for this government?