Batley and Spen by-election

lemongrove

What exactly could this government ( or any government) do
About Gaza? Even the US can’t do anything.
Should the Labour Party ( again, or any Party) become anti-Semitic just to garner Muslim votes? Corbyn did, of course, although it didn’t do him any good!
Batley and Spen have see-sawed between political parties for years, so it wouldn’t be totally ‘off the wall’ for the Conservatives to win it back. The White British population of the constituency far outnumbers any ethnic group there.

My point better put lemongrove

Thanks Nams

lemongrove What exactly could this government ( or any government) do
About Gaza? Even the US can’t do anything
Well we could start by expressing support for the thousands of Palestinians who have lost their homes and ask Israel to comply with the UN rulings on this.
Should the Labour Party ( again, or any Party) become anti-Semitic just to garner Muslim votes? Corbyn did, of course, although it didn’t do him any good!
It is not antisemitic to question the actions of the Israeli state. It is not antisemitic to express support for the Palestinian people. It is not antisemitic to listen to Muslims whose families have spent years in refugee camps.
It is standing up for human rights.
Which once upon a time mattered in this country especially to the Labour Party.
The weaponisation of antisemitism is one of the saddest and one of the most dangerous developments in recent times.

trisher I really think that you must believe that the UK is much more powerful than it actually is!
How do you know what any government over the years has expressed to the head of the Israeli government?
If the most powerful country in the world ( the US) can’t do much what do you expect of us?
Would you expect us to be able to influence Iran? There are some countries and situations that European governments can’t say too much to, ( at least publicly) and the situation in the Middle East is one of them.In any case, Israel has a right to defend itself and will do, no matter now many tickings off from other countries or protest marches etc held there.
The UK government has to try and be unbiased, which means they can’t come down on one side or the other.
If Labour lose the by-election because they perceive the LP to be not forceful enough about Gaza, then why would they vote Conservative? That wouldn’t make sense.
That being the case, if the Conservatives do win there, then there are other reasons at play.

Batley and Spen have see-sawed between political parties for years, so it wouldn’t be totally ‘off the wall’ for the Conservatives to win it back.

Batley and Spen has been Labour since 1997. During that time they had 3 MPS, one of them for 18 years. Before that they had had the same Tory MP for at least 14 years.

Hardly see-sawing.

I agree that the situation with Israel and Palestine is extremely difficult, and dislike the way that any criticism of Israel is trumpeted as being evidence of anti-Semitism, however, I absolutely loathe Galloway and his patronising attitude to the Muslim voters of Batley, his assumption that the small, but vociferous minority who do not wish their children to learn about lqbtq rights, or even have sex education are the ones to be pandered to. I think it is time that repellent film of him in BB was shown again, that might change a few minds......

I notice no one has mentioned this,
inews.co.uk/news/politics/labour-accused-identity-politics-batley-and-spen-by-election-campaign-dirty-tricks-claims-1076139.
TUC and Mp Navendra Mishna have also complained to her own party.
Anything goes I suppose, surely elections should be won on peoples choices freely arrived at, not coercion.

lemongrove

trisher I really think that you must believe that the UK is much more powerful than it actually is!
How do you know what any government over the years has expressed to the head of the Israeli government?
If the most powerful country in the world ( the US) can’t do much what do you expect of us?
Would you expect us to be able to influence Iran? There are some countries and situations that European governments can’t say too much to, ( at least publicly) and the situation in the Middle East is one of them.In any case, Israel has a right to defend itself and will do, no matter now many tickings off from other countries or protest marches etc held there.
The UK government has to try and be unbiased, which means they can’t come down on one side or the other.
If Labour lose the by-election because they perceive the LP to be not forceful enough about Gaza, then why would they vote Conservative? That wouldn’t make sense.
That being the case, if the Conservatives do win there, then there are other reasons at play.

lemongrove The US "can't do much" because it profits massively from the conflict.It is the biggest supplier of arms to Israel. It's naive to. think they have any interest whatsoever in stopping it caat.org.uk/data/countries/israel/israels-arms-suppliers/
As I said Starmer doesn't need to do much but he does need to speak out and he should remove the advisor who once worked for the Israeili secret service.
Who said anything about people voting conservative? George Galloway is accused of splitting the Labour vote and that may be all that is needed

Yes, Galloway may split the vote and thus the Conservative candidate could get the seat on a minority of the votes.

It’s possible, but the polls seem to show that Galloway will only get a tiny amount of votes, which could make a difference if the result is ‘close’ but we won’t know that until the day.

trisher the US supplies arms to Israel amongst other countries, but that doesn’t mean they wouldn't be glad to see peace there.One day Starmer may be the PM, so he can’t speak out in favour of Palestine, he will have to deal with Israel and be diplomatic.
There are no easy solutions.If a vociferous and biased leader
(Corbyn)! In the LP speaks out ( our friends in Hamas etc) and a few protest marches took place, was all that was needed it would have brought about peace in the middle east long ago,
But obviously, those things do nothing. A Labour Leader as a PM in waiting can’t act like a rabble rouser.

lemongrove Galloway has in the past taken some of the LP vote, I see no reason why he can't do the same in Batley

You may be quite right about peace being impossible but there are many Muslims who simply want to see some sort of support for the Palestinians and who know Starmer won't provide that. If we don't expect or ask for politicians to take moral stands on issues where human rights are concerned don't we demonstrate that democracy is failing? And is that one reason Muslims are radicalised?
It isn't "rabble rousing" to take a stand on moral issues it's standing by your principles. I remember when most politicians had them.

Do you actually support George Galloway trisher?

I havn't seen anything in trisher's posts to indicate that she supports Galloway.
Asking for Starmer to show a little bit of support for Palestine is hardly a radical stance.

I support the Palestinian cause varian I believe George Galloway does as well so I suppose we have some common ground. I don't support Starmer who seems to be digging Labour deeper and deeper into a hole.
As far as personality goes I think George Galloway has most in common with Boris Johnson, both are self important prats.

I only ask the question because I am genuinely puzzled by Labour Party members who seem bent on undermining their party leader and look reluctant to support Kim Leadbetter, the Labour candidate in Batley and Spen.

Do these people actually want to lose this by-election to the Conservatives?

It’s true that trisher does hate bomb Starmer at every possible opportunity (as does Grany, who I haven’t seen posting lately, hope she’s okay), but to be fair varian there are a lot more moderate Labour supporters on here than there are former Corbynistas, the vast majority of us do want Labour to get into an electable position again.

I would like to know, if you are a LP member, but don't like Starmer, and you happen to live in Batley and Spen, who would you vote for in the by-election?

I would imagine that the voters in Batley and Spen have other things more local to home on their minds than the Palestinian cause.
Starmer currying favour with anti-Semitic or anti- Israel voters in the UK is just the sort of thing that he shouldn’t be doing, and hopefully won’t.
I thought ( and still do) that he could make a good future PM,
But will watch with interest what he does in the next couple of years.

varian

I only ask the question because I am genuinely puzzled by Labour Party members who seem bent on undermining their party leader and look reluctant to support Kim Leadbetter, the Labour candidate in Batley and Spen.

Do these people actually want to lose this by-election to the Conservatives?

Some LP members find Starmer's leadership and policy making incompatible with the party ethos. The way Leadbetter was catapulted into the constituency is also unacceptable to some.
Perhaps they hope that a defeat will act as a wake up call.

They have no interest in government if that's any help varian.

They know one MP isn't going to make a difference to this government. They hope if the party can re-establish proper policies they will be electable by the next GE.

So,- please correct me if I've got this wrong, what you are telling me is that these left wingers actually want the Labour Party to lose this by-election?,?,?

varian

So,- please correct me if I've got this wrong, what you are telling me is that these left wingers actually want the Labour Party to lose this by-election?,?,?

I get the strong impression, from following a few on twitter and seeing the large number of anti-Starmer, & anti many MPs, comments that their threads attract, that many would be delighted if Labour lose this by-election. But then, they wouldn't care for any of the mainstream parties being successful. They hate the tories and the LibDems just as much, and the SNP. They don't do a lot for the image of socialism.

I agree with many of their 'aims' so far as the organisation and running of the country is concerned, but they can be so unpleasant that it just make me cross.

varian

So,- please correct me if I've got this wrong, what you are telling me is that these left wingers actually want the Labour Party to lose this by-election?,?,?

Some think winning Batley will in the long run make little difference and a loss might make Labour look at things more closely and enable them to reorganise.

I cannot see how electing a Labour MP in B&S could possibly prevent them from reorganising.