Sign up to Gransnet Daily
Our free daily newsletter full of hot threads, competitions and discounts
Subscribe
I watched a programme about the psychology of violence on BBC2 I think it was, over two nights.
The basic premise was that over the millennia the world has become less violent, due they argued to the level of testosterone falling in the male of the human species.
For those amongst you who want this to be backed up with facts, I am afraid I am going to disappoint, but that really isn’t what I am going to argue about. What interested me was the research into why and how violence was becoming less.
The thesis is that accepting the fact that testosterone levels are very gradually dropping, and that violence is less if you looked at the relative number of people killed over the millennia , the scientists looked at the apparent trigger points for violence.
One interesting fact was that 98% of violent deaths in the world are done by males.
What they found was that the more cohesive society was the less violence there is. So in a society where division is encouraged the more violence there is.
They then looked at recent political phenomena where violence has increased. The most obvious one is Germany, where an extreme form of nationalism resulted in the division of society and the deaths of millions of people. However, the researchers went on to suggest that any form of nationalism creates division, where violence increases, citing Trumps America, China, etc.
What characterises these governments was the authoritarian sometimes populist but always nationalist.
The scientist then tried to work out why, populations were as in Germany’s case apparently willing to comply with violence, division and hate. They pointed to various experiments done by psychologists (some of you will be familiar with them) where people are told by an figure “in authority” to inflict pain on a “subject” . The conclusion was that most people will believe those who are seen as the authority, without criticism. Those who are critical will be “othered” or ignored.
This is seen as why we can never be complacent and that authoritarian, nationalists should always be questioned and criticised in order for society to remain at peace.
I leave you with this, written by someone in a country has experienced what it is like to ignore the danger signals.
Britain. A German view.
“the outlines of an autocratic regime can be seen: attacks on freedom of expression & assembly, blatant corruption, cold-hearted politics against migrants”
“the opposition is sleeping”
“the govt must be forced by the public”
Wer Boris Johnson für einen Politclown hielt, hat sich getäuscht. Er verändert Großbritannien in eine autoritäre Richtung.
taz.de
Maremia
Whitewave, sorry a bit late with this, but prompted by an article in the Guardian this morning, did the programme discuss or examine 'domestic violence'?
No they looked at violent death between countries, then as violence within a country, and provided a theory as to why certain societies appear more violent than others, but didn’t look at domestic violence.
Referring back to the premise of the discussion that “over the millennia the world has become less violent, due they argued to the level of testosterone falling in the male of the human species.” Its an interesting thought, that if testosterone continues to fall at the rate it is, not only in males but in females too, we all may one day become robotic zombies, or perhaps without knowing it perhaps we already are
love0c
Growstuff I think you are giving undeserved credit to Boris. Boris is so easily manipulated he can not be described as a bully. That is why I am pleased he has appointed Sajid Javid.
I take your point.
Whitewave, sorry a bit late with this, but prompted by an article in the Guardian this morning, did the programme discuss or examine 'domestic violence'?
I too had a flicker of optimism when Javid was appointed, as I did think he acted honourably when Cummings fired some of his staff. Normal service now resumed though, he is just like the rest of them.
Just considering the economy and ignoring the health risks will lead inevitably to a downturn in the economy.
love0c
Growstuff I think you are giving undeserved credit to Boris. Boris is so easily manipulated he can not be described as a bully. That is why I am pleased he has appointed Sajid Javid.
He appointed Javid to agree to opening up on 21st and letting covid rip through the country. I thought Javid had been a man of principle but, alas, he is nothing of the kind. He is the economic health minister, not the health minister.
Maizie ????? go out in the fresh air.
love0c
Growstuff I think you are giving undeserved credit to Boris. Boris is so easily manipulated he can not be described as a bully. That is why I am pleased he has appointed Sajid Javid.
I'm beginning to regret the demise of Hancock. Hopeless, venal and corrupt he might have been was but at least he seemed more concerned about the health of the nation (clue: Health Minister) than the health of the economy.
Why are you pleased about the appointment of a man who wants to kill and disable more of the English population?
Growstuff I think you are giving undeserved credit to Boris. Boris is so easily manipulated he can not be described as a bully. That is why I am pleased he has appointed Sajid Javid.
Johnson is not a libertarian by any stretch of the imagination. He has the characteristics of a narcissistic bully with no management skills.
lemongrove
I think the idea of Johnson as some sort of fascist dictator is a very strange one, he isn’t very right wing at all, never mind extreme right wing.He doesn’t even like imposing any Covid restrictions on people.
Mussolini started off as a revolutionary socialist. His socialist policies appealed to many Italians. Authoritarians (even ones who are known as right wing) don't fit into neat boxes. Don't forget the "zi" in Nazi is short for "sozialistisch".
It is not the action of a libertarian.
It is the action of an authoritarian. Everything he does is strengthening the state as opposed to the individual.
And, lemon, if I decline to enter a debate, whether you like my reason or not, I am exercising that freedom of speech which the culture war warriors prize so highly.
This government can do what they like.
This could never happen in a democracy
Surely it is time to stop the dictatorship of a a government elected by a minority of the voters.!
lemongrove
I think the idea of Johnson as some sort of fascist dictator is a very strange one, he isn’t very right wing at all, never mind extreme right wing.He doesn’t even like imposing any Covid restrictions on people.
For a supposed libertarian he is running (well, ostensibly 'running', but I think his government is out of control) a very peculiar government.
He has just seen a Bill through Parliament that clamps down on the right to protest; hardly a 'libertarian' move when it limits freedom of speech and action, and is about to see through a Bill which will disenfranchise a significant number of voters, also a limit to freedom of speech (if you can define voting as an act of 'speech').
He also plans to circumvent the Rule of Law by weakening judicial power to hold the government to account through Judicial review, and, to to further weaken the powers of the Electoral Commission to enforce electoral law designed to ensure free and fair elections.
These are not the actions of a libertarian.
I think the idea of Johnson as some sort of fascist dictator is a very strange one, he isn’t very right wing at all, never mind extreme right wing.He doesn’t even like imposing any Covid restrictions on people.
ww you say ‘all opinions welcome’ complete with laughing emojis....which says it all, because all opinions are certainly not welcome on this thread, as witness Maizies reply to Annie1
‘I think you’re probably too invested in the tories
culture war to make discussion worthwhile’......!
This could have been an interesting discussion ( reduction of violence etc) but if the agenda is simply tory bashing...that ever popular pastime on here by some then it just becomes a bore, can you really not see that? Just as an obsession with Brexit, which can usually be linked to just about anything, is a bore.If you really want a discussion by many different GN members and not just a cosy few, then views which show the opposite side of the coin should be welcomed, or at least tolerated.
Lilyflower What do you mean by elitism?
Marxist and Woke.
Sounds like a firm of solicitors.
Anniel
MaizieD we could have a debate about the Cancel Culture. I see one person who rejrcts that is is even happening. One only has to consider the Trans debate where well known feminists have been blocked from speaking at universities and today a famous book “To Kill A Mocking Bird” has been banned by some schools to know that the Cancel Culture is thriving in University cultures and in the Arts. If you are interested in the importance of free speech then you could join the Free Speech Union which tells its members about action to protect our freedoms. But then again you may not care! Its a relatively free country!
Are you in America? "To Kill a Mocking Bird" has been banned in some Californian schools, but I'm not aware it's been banned in the UK.
Lilyflower well said - I totally agree.
Oh please - I would say most governments around the world have been authoritarian to a greater or lesser degree due to the pandemic. We cannot judge the current status quo by "normal" conditions. Our PM is a libertarian at heart, as are many Conservatives. I blame the current divisions in our country on the wave of identity politics we seem to be suffering from - putting people into separate "special" groups is creating more division, rather than inclusiveness or togetherness.
Anniel
MaizieD we could have a debate about the Cancel Culture. I see one person who rejrcts that is is even happening. One only has to consider the Trans debate where well known feminists have been blocked from speaking at universities and today a famous book “To Kill A Mocking Bird” has been banned by some schools to know that the Cancel Culture is thriving in University cultures and in the Arts. If you are interested in the importance of free speech then you could join the Free Speech Union which tells its members about action to protect our freedoms. But then again you may not care! Its a relatively free country!
I think you're probably too invested in the tory's culture war to make any discussion worthwhile.
MaizieD we could have a debate about the Cancel Culture. I see one person who rejrcts that is is even happening. One only has to consider the Trans debate where well known feminists have been blocked from speaking at universities and today a famous book “To Kill A Mocking Bird” has been banned by some schools to know that the Cancel Culture is thriving in University cultures and in the Arts. If you are interested in the importance of free speech then you could join the Free Speech Union which tells its members about action to protect our freedoms. But then again you may not care! Its a relatively free country!
Registering is free, easy, and means you can join the discussion, watch threads and lots more.
Register now »Already registered? Log in with:
Gransnet »Get our top conversations, latest advice, fantastic competitions, and more, straight to your inbox. Sign up to our daily newsletter here.
