Electoral reform

YES!

Why first-past-the-post steals elections for right-wing parties – and how to stop it- given a fair chance at the ballot box, British voters would elect more progressive governments.

www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2021/04/why-first-past-post-steals-elections-right-wing-parties-and-how-stop-it?fbclid=IwAR0tEx3l26CSiAC0V-AwOS7OPT1RUjJJ8RgVGwWvtY8nak97RTdfpzsNF30

www.makevotesmatter.org.uk/

You can shout all you like it’s not going to happen for Westminster elections. Both Tories and Labour are supporting the current system, a system of PR will damage both of them, Turkeys do not vote for Christmas!.

About two thirds of LP supporters and just over half Tory voters support electoral reform.

The party which benefits most from FPTP is the Tory Party so I agree they are unlikely to support a move towards democracy in the UK.

It is high time that the Labour Party realised that, quite apart from supporting the principle of democracy, it is not in the interests of their party for us to continue with the anti-democratic First Past The Post.

Just how unequal our votes are.

This shows the number of votes (in hundreds of thousands)_ needed to elect one MP (or in the case of the Brexit party, no MP.

How could anyone describe this as a fair voting system?

We had a referendum in 2011 and PR was rejected, 67.9% against. The turn out was 41%.

PR is a complex issue and needs to be discussed and talked about a lot on TV etc for people to get the hang of it and used to the idea. In one of the votes in Wales - the Senydd (Welsh Assembly) I think - PR is used for some of the seats.
I think there are two types of PR voting but I can’t for the life of me think what the differences are - any one know and can explain?

Wales uses a PR system, Scotland does, the EU does. There is nothing about FPTP that makes it anything near democratic. A progressive alliance is essential to achieve PR, but a doubt Labour will sign up.

We have never had a referendum on PR. The 2011 referendum was on AV which is not PR

Nick Clegg should have insisted upon a vote for PR in return backing Cameron and Osbourne. They became tories just to get a chance to be 'in government'. People won't forget that.

This question is nothing to do with previous votes or politicians who have long left politics. It is simple. Can anyone say, hand on heart, that they think it is in any way democratic that you need:

866,000 votes to elect 1 Green MP
336,000 votes to elect 1 LibDem MP
51,000 votes to elect 1 Labour MP
38,000 votes to elect 1 Conservative MP

If you think that is democrasy then could you explain to me why?

Katie59

You can shout all you like it’s not going to happen for Westminster elections. Both Tories and Labour are supporting the current system, a system of PR will damage both of them, Turkeys do not vote for Christmas!.

Quite so Katie. Whoever gets in power wants to stay there.

No politician who cynically supports a corrupt voting system to advantage his own party has any right to call himself a democrat.-

Nor, to be honest, can any voter Varian

PippaZ

This question is nothing to do with previous votes or politicians who have long left politics. It is simple. Can anyone say, hand on heart, that they think it is in any way democratic that you need:

866,000 votes to elect 1 Green MP
336,000 votes to elect 1 LibDem MP
51,000 votes to elect 1 Labour MP
38,000 votes to elect 1 Conservative MP

If you think that is democrasy then could you explain to me why?

I'm sure UKIP/Brexit or whoever comes along will also gain seats. Whatever the system you are going to find those with whom you disagree.

And I do disagree we do need to remember what the LibDems did. They gave the keys of No 10 to Cameron. The one who gave you a vote on Brexit. Still very relevant IMO.

Having said that I do think FPTP is not a good system.

I'm sure UKIP/Brexit or whoever comes along will also gain seats. Whatever the system you are going to find those with whom you disagree.

Well, that isn't a problem, is it, Mamardoit? That's what democracy is all about, giving as much of a voice as possible to all citizens.

Perhaps people would take a bit more interest in keeping their politicians honest if they felt that their vote actually counted.

Added to the unfairness and unrepresentative nature of FPTP is the' bonus' of people not bothering to vote in a seat with a very safe incumbent, Labour or Tory. Where I live, my vote is 'wasted' as it is a very safe Tory seat, add to this the fact that other parties such as Labour, LibDems, Greens don't bother to put in so much effort to try to win a very safe seat and it becomes even more undemocratic and unrepresentative of the people that live here

MaizieD

^I'm sure UKIP/Brexit or whoever comes along will also gain seats. Whatever the system you are going to find those with whom you disagree^.

Well, that isn't a problem, is it, Mamardoit? That's what democracy is all about, giving as much of a voice as possible to all citizens.

Perhaps people would take a bit more interest in keeping their politicians honest if they felt that their vote actually counted.

It's not a problem for me.

I was trying to simplify but I will add in the Brexit party, which stood in the 2019 election.

644,000 votes to elect 1 Brexit MP
38,000 votes to elect 1 Conservative MP

As I understand it in some religions you need the evidence of two women to equal one man's. Do you think that is fair? Or that it should go on because it always has?

In that election, you would need just short of 17 people voting Brexit to be democratically equal to 1 voter voting Conservative. How can that be right or democratic? It doesn't matter that one is pro Brexit and one pro Conservative; it would be wrong whichever party they were voting for. We will disagree with others on politics but I would rather have a democratically elected parliament with a few (or more) that I don't agree with, than an undemocratic one.

Are you really saying you don't care about the lack of democracy?

Sorry, that was to Mamardoit re Thu 08-Jul-21 16:17:15

varian

No politician who cynically supports a corrupt voting system to advantage his own party has any right to call himself a democrat.-

Politics is not about democracy it’s about power, no more so than at present

Katie59

varian

No politician who cynically supports a corrupt voting system to advantage his own party has any right to call himself a democrat.-

Politics is not about democracy it’s about power, no more so than at present

Are you just stating the current situation there, Katie59, or are you being cynical about politics in general?

Don't you think that the ordinary voter should feel that they have a say in the way their country is run?

Or do we just sit back and let our betters slug it out for who is going to be in control? Like they did until the franchise was extended.

I’m cynical, because very few politicians vote with their conscience anyone who defies the whip is sidelined, that applies to local and national elections.