New proposals for voter identification.

Let me think...

Why would a right wing government want to dissuade the more disadvantaged people in society from voting, given that they are not likely to vote for a right wing party....?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voter_suppression

Mollygo, My opposition to compulsory voting is very longstanding and and goes back well into my working years. I have always been opposed to the breach of democracy that compulsory voting entails and would have done as I said, even when my career would have been at stake.

Saetana

Oh FFS! Postal voting will still be available - you do not, and will not, need photo ID for that! There are millions of people who do not bother to vote, regardless of needing ID, I don't have a great deal of sympathy for them. I support the Australian method of voting being compulsory, or having to pay a fine. People died to get us the vote - I consider it a civic duty, its a shame that some people do not.

Wonderful!

But can you please explain why we need voter ID when voter fraud is not a problem?

OTOH, there is far more fraud associated with postal voting..

Why so eager to embrace authoritarian rule?

I'm baffled.

*M0nica what is your longstanding opposition to compulsory voting?
Having a prison record wouldn't just have affected my career, it would have affected my life-, job applications, the ease of getting a mortgage etc.
I’m not sure anyone could say with certainty that they’d take that chance. Lucky you didn’t have to prove your point.
Probably just as well that I’d vote whether compulsory or not.

Mollygo If voting is compulsory it is not democratic. democracy includes the right to choose not to participate.

Thanks M0nica. I take your point.
Democracy for many in the UK manifestly includes the right to whinge when your party or choice of outcome doesn’t win, possibly as a result of your refusal to vote.
Wow! Such a lot of democrats in this country.

Er...yeah, that is in fact democracy...

There isn’t a space on the voting card to say actually I don’t like or want any of these candidates/parties so I abstain. If you were forced to vote and felt this way you either spoil the paper or don’t fill it in and then put it in the box. It may be you can’t be a**ed to vote.

Surely in a democracy you have a right not to vote? If you don’t you can complain about them all!!

But yes Avalon! Now I understand democracy so much better. With all the twining that goes on there are obviously more democrats than I ever dreamed of. I always thought the right to vote was something we’d strived for and so would use. That was in the past. Now we have the given right to vote we can choose not to. It’s a funny world.

Democracy, like human rights can be messy, you can give people freedom, but you have to live with what people do with it, which may not be to their or anyone elses advantages

This is why democracy is so orderly in an authoritarian country. Even if voting is not compulsory, they will 'help' you vote by telling you who to vote for, and will even vote for you, to make sure that there is a nice orderly result with the right party winning.

It is the question of how much you are prepared to compromise to keep the trains running on time.

I always thought the right to vote was something we’d strived for and so would use.

Curious to know who the 'we' are who strove for the right to vote. Because it certainly wasn't any of us alive today.

Like every single change that has occurred in this country since recorded history began the right to vote was campaigned for and won by a vociferous and persuasive minority. As with every other 'change' a very significant portion of the population was uninterested and indifferent to it. They still are. They don't bother to vote.

What is worse today, though, is people who would seem to be politically active are indifferent to moves to deliberately deprive people of their right to vote...

Some people feel disempowered, that their vote won’t make any difference whoever is in power so they don’t bother. I dare say if you told people they weren’t allowed to vote they would be more inclined to do so.

I dare say if you told people they weren’t allowed to vote they would be more inclined to do so.

Let's hope you're right, Avalon.

Though I think there'll always be a hard core of the totally uninterested...

Sorry MaizieD exactly what you posted!
I should have clarified that ‘we’ referred to the suffragette movement, but same as now, some women at that time probably didn’t care whether they had the vote or not and didn’t bother to use it anyway.

Compulsory voting would be acceptable as long as there was a box marked none of the above which could be ticked. Would likely win by a landslide

In N Ireland it really doesn't matter who you vote for. The religious headbangers and hate filled others always get in.

Yes please GillT57. There are times when I’d like a box like that even before voting us compulsory!

It seems even the govt can get their knickers in a twist at times. This, received from the Electoral Reform Society this morning:

"^Users without ID, or users who are reliant on ID from family members, would experience a serious restriction of their…experience, freedom of expression and rights. Research from the Electoral Commission suggests that there are 3.5 million people in the UK who do not currently have access to a valid photo ID.^”

If this sounds like an ERS argument against mandatory voter ID, you might be surprised. It’s the government’s own words.

Ministers have just made an astonishing own goal, after admitting that making identification mandatory for social media users could disenfranchise 3.5m people.

Those words came in an official response to an e-petition calling for social media users to be verified by showing ID when setting up accounts.

Yet in a reply to a separate petition – calling for ministers to scrap plans to force all voters to show ID – the government said:

“^Showing identification to prove who you are is something people of all walks of life already do everyday. It is a reasonable and proportionate approach to extend this practice to voting and to give the public confidence that their vote is theirs, and theirs alone. Everyone who is eligible to vote will continue to be able to do so.^”

This has now been directly contradicted by the government itself, in response to the social media petition. Millions of people lack photo ID in the UK – making mandatory voter ID a threat to the right to vote.

In other words, the government is pushing forward with its illiberal Elections Bill – which contains the provisions for mandatory voter ID – despite publicly admitting it could lock millions out of political participation.

Commenting, Willie Sullivan, Senior Director (Campaigns) at the Electoral Reform Society, said: “This is an astonishing admission from the government, undermining its own case for mandatory voter ID.

“If the government believes that ID for social media users will restrict the freedoms and rights of millions of people, the same stands for voter ID. It will make voting harder for everyone and lock huge numbers of people out of democracy.

“We are truly through the looking glass now, with one department attacking ID while another imposes it on the whole country make it harder to vote. The government’s culture department is right, along with Conservatives like Ruth Davison and David Davis who argue that mandatory ID is an illiberal, costly policy that will only make our democracy more unequal.”

By the government’s own admission – and research – mandatory ID could pull up the drawbridge to millions of voters. The government must now scrap this dangerous, undemocratic policy – and listen to its own department.

Obviously if voting did become compulsory then there would have to be a "none of the above" option - not that I see compulsory voting becoming policy in the UK, I just believe it should be.

I am one of those people with no photo ID, haven't driven in 20 years or been out of the country since the 90s. I would love to have some photo ID that I could use - its getting more and more necessary to have this for far more reasons than voting. Try using the Government Gateway without having photo ID - its possible but complicated. Banks want it to open an account, etc etc.