Little Britain - the state of England today

Are they in an area with lots of UK migrants Callistemon? I think that there are places where people perhaps recreate a "Little England", a bit like French migrants in areas of London. It isn't like that where we live in Normandy, we are the only Brits in the village. Having said that, this area as a whole feels very close geographically and historically to England. I keep trying to retire from teaching English, but people still keep asking. When you spend a lot of time researching and interpreting UK culture and events for advanced learners, it feels a bit harsh to be told that you can't understand what is happening in the UK unless you live there.

I once told a man off when he threw an empty cigarette packet on the ground. I got the same reply as you, Galaxy. That was predictable because Keeping Britain Tidy is not what we do.

I once stopped to intervene when a man was pushing a woman, she jumped into her car and he told me to fuck off.

MissAdventure

Well, you'll be having a long wait then.
I never justify myself to people who don't matter.

MissAdventure
?

Some people always demand others justify themselves. It's way of gaining control.

I gave £10 to a stranger in a backless nighty when I was at the hospital once.

I stopped to let Ian Lavender cross the road once

Mamie

Certainly not true of us Callistemon. Since we moved to France 15 years ago we have only had a home here and gone back to see our family and friends. We are utterly integrated into our French community, teaching English to U3A, serving on the Council etc.
However I have always been interested in politics and I care passionately about the countries (UK and Spain) that my grandchildren are growing up in.
I think some people think we live on the far side of the Himalayas with the Times arriving by messenger once a month. It really isn't like that any more you know. It is perfectly possible to have a grasp on current affairs in more than one country.

Mamie
I wasn't taking issue with you at all, just explaining how I have observed many do lead their lives.

No I agree MissAdventure. I think it is perfectly reasonable for me to have a view of the performance of the Boris Johnson government (for example) because I can read a range of sources, establish facts and most importantly, discuss things with individuals in the UK who have considerable personal insight because of their closeness to events.
What I cannot say is "you must all hate living there and be unhappy" because that is clearly impossible to know and a meaningless statement, for which there is no evidence.
The question I was asking though, was whether living abroad removed the right to comment on events in the UK and if so, why people felt able to comment on what happens in other countries.

I’m still waiting to hear about what people on this thread have personally done to make this country a better place.

Perhaps we could start with you, MaizieD

The OP has been given a lot of information on what people are doing. And others have rightly pointed out that they do not have to give out personal (possibly even outing) information on a public forum just because it’s demanded of them by a random stranger on social media. This is Gransnet, not a court of law.

I gave my opinions on four of the OP’s points very early in the thread. As I have a few minutes to spare and it seems to be required of us, I’ll address the others.

30,000 children in care moved last year away from their local area, schools, support networks etc, often without prior warning (not on Channel 4)

I’ve seen nothing about this. If you provide a link I’ll give an opinion.

Cuts in the arts lessons in schools.

Again, could you give a few facts and figures? I asked my artist daughter yesterday what she thought of the creative curriculum offered to her 8 and 4 year olds, and she’s more than happy with it. Are these regional cuts, cuts made by academy trusts or choices made by individual head teachers? If it’s cuts by the government, you should know that changes to ring-fenced funding happen regularly. The school where I last worked had enough in the music pot for a couple of years to buy a cheap guitar and tuition for every child in two year groups and pay a full-time music teacher to organise choirs etc for all our children. The next year the focus changed to ICT and we were buying laptops. There was a brief spell when we had dedicated funding for foreign language teaching from Reception onwards - it didn’t last. It’s irritating, but not unusual, for subjects to be prioritised one year, given a backseat the next. There was a remark earlier about schools not encouraging future stars of the acting world. When were acting lessons ever the job of a school? One of my DGS goes to after school drama club and one to an after school street dance class. For fun, which is exactly what they should be having at 6 and 8.

Football

Whilst absolutely condemning the appalling loutish behaviour of a minority of drunken yobs after the Euros final, and hoping that they’re identified and dealt with, I have to point out that there would have been much more of it back in the golden age of blessed memory. I watched the game myself in an English pub while on holiday, after an Italian meal and a bit of banter with the staff at the restaurant - there was a lot of drinking, a lot of noise, an excellent match, and in the end we all dispersed rather glumly to our homes and hotels. As did the vast majority of fans. The team itself is a delight - diverse, young, keen and great role models for our young people, something that certainly wasn’t the case 50 years ago. Despite the foul abuse they’ve had (it’s emerging now that over 70% of it came from abroad), these players have all spoken since about their pride at playing for their country. Three of them were picked out by the Euros expert observers to go into the team of the tournament. The best 11 of all the players in the 24 squads that started. One of the criteria was fair play. To sum up, I see the way football is going as a cause for hope, not condemnation.

And now I’m off to get my washing out while the sun’s still shining.

It isn't and never will be possible to have a grasp on total strangers' morals and values, though, particularly online.

Certainly not true of us Callistemon. Since we moved to France 15 years ago we have only had a home here and gone back to see our family and friends. We are utterly integrated into our French community, teaching English to U3A, serving on the Council etc.
However I have always been interested in politics and I care passionately about the countries (UK and Spain) that my grandchildren are growing up in.
I think some people think we live on the far side of the Himalayas with the Times arriving by messenger once a month. It really isn't like that any more you know. It is perfectly possible to have a grasp on current affairs in more than one country.

Well, you'll be having a long wait then.
I never justify myself to people who don't matter.

MaizieD

MissAdventure

I'm surprised that it has to be constantly explained that making sweeping statements about whole populations is rude.

I think that a number of the comments made on this thread illustrate perfectly that the misgivings the OP has about the current 'tone' of the UK are quite justified.

I’m still waiting to hear about what people on this thread have personally done to make this country a better place. All I’m hearing is how the OP has no right to be concerned about things that are happening here. I’d also be interested in knowing which points of concern raised by the OP are thought to be untrue.

Callistemon: ^"It's only the ones in France who seem to keep a foot in both camps, so to speak, a home in France and a flat here as do several posters on here.
So they don't seem properly settled in either country, and I wonder why."^

Well, I wonder if it's more of a British thing.

The Scandinavian group I belong to mainly consists of women who like me moved to Britain, married a Brit, started a family and settled here. Nobody I know still has a home in Scandinavia. Of course we still go back for holidays to meet family and friends. I have been going back for one 2 weeks' visit a year but my next door British couple manages to visit their villa in Portugal for an extended stay every year. So I actually think I am more settled in Britain than they are. Also, they still haven't picked up many words in Portuguese.

I think that's covered by the premise that if you can't take it, don't dish it out.

MissAdventure

I'm surprised that it has to be constantly explained that making sweeping statements about whole populations is rude.

I think that a number of the comments made on this thread illustrate perfectly that the misgivings the OP has about the current 'tone' of the UK are quite justified.

MissAdventure

I'm surprised that it has to be constantly explained that making sweeping statements about whole populations is rude.

Racist even.

Ellianne

Oh Maizie calme-toi.
I could say you are the one to always make unpleasant comments about me!
Don't you have a brain of your own? Nice, thank you. I won't cite my academic qualifications here for you to ridicule. Just to say I was employed for many years settling families abroad and understand aspirations. I follow comments through because that us my training and I find the subject fascinating.

Your comment was unambiguous:

Does that not take us back to the OP then who seemed more delighted to move to France for the amount of land and the number toilets acquired, rather than to embrace French culture?

That sounds as though it is your judgement, not a summary of other comments.

If you had concluded this in the light of other comments made it it implies a lack of independent judgement of the original post. Following the herd, really, and unpleasant.

If it is your judgement it is equally unpleasant.

I really don't see any other way it can be taken.

Interesting point Callistemon. I think people who sell up and move properly to France, lock, stock and barrel really want it work and jump through all the hoops to achieve it. They enter a completely different system - taxes, healthcare, education - and it is scary enough to make them feel the need convince themselves it's got to be better in their adopted country or why bother to move? Maybe there is a certain pride or smugness, and I understand that.
The other countries you mention all speak English and anyone moving to France also has language challenges along with a very different culture.
Having a holiday property in France just means you can take all the nice bits and so do not see the full picture.

I'm surprised that it has to be constantly explained that making sweeping statements about whole populations is rude.

Mamie

I am quite intrigued by the posters saying "you shouldn't criticise the UK if you don't live there", given that they quite often then seem to go on to criticise other countries.
Does that mean that only those us who lived somewhere for decades then moved away, can't say anything about a country we are not living in or does it apply to everybody? In which case I am not sure why people on here would post criticisms of France (for example), especially as the source often seems to be entirely based on UK media.
Can anyone enlighten me?

I don't think that is the point, though, Mamie.
We've got family living in Australia, New Zealand, Canada, America and France.
It's only the ones in France who seem to keep a foot in both camps, so to speak, a home in France and a flat here as do several posters on here.
So they don't seem properly settled in either country, and I wonder why.

I think also that the reason posters are answering as they are on here is:

I care about these things and yet I don't live in the UK at the moment. Why aren't you all caring about the wrongs? And, if you do, why aren't you doing something about it?

You can tell me that it's always been like this but I've been on this earth for 74 years and it's about times things changed.

It was based on one TV news report on the undoubtedly biased Channel 4.
It made assumptions about other posters and was, in fact, extremely rude. That is probably why posters became defensive.

Re the last paragraph. Maybe not when I was in my teens and early twenties but when I had my first child I wanted her to grow up in a fair, decent society. Yes, I did join the Labour Party because that was the party that shared my vision. My daughter was born in the day Thatcher was elected and she certainly didn’t represent the sort of country I wanted for my family. I thought, as I got older I would become less political but realised in recent years that it isn’t a good place to grow old in. And we now face the prospect of the NHS being dismantled and privatised bit by bit. It think you’ll find, lemon, that most of the people on here that are concerned about society in general have felt that way for a long long time.

‘Many of you are doing as much as you can but many aren’t’ you say Dinah ...Yet another angry remark.

You were obviously a Labour voter when you used to live in the UK and wish for another Labour government ( when all wrongs will be put right!) as you fondly imagine.

Look, it’s already been pointed out to you that any ills in society in the UK are certainly present in France where you currently live, yet you have chosen to become a French citizen.

The media have a lot to answer for and they concentrate on negatives. Life here in England ( and the rest of the UK!) is good generally, just as it’s good generally in France.

Before social media existed the electorate accepted that results at General Elections or referendums and just got on with it, now....not so much ( understatement of the year there.)
People are often permanently angry or upset or worried, by things they have no control over now.
Ask yourself this ( to everyone) did you get all riled up all the time over politics and the ills of society ( under any government) as you do now that you are old? It’s having so much time to watch news and brood on things that causes problems.We can all do some small good in the world by our acts, but the maxim ‘do your best and leave the rest’ is actually quite a good one.
No matter what some may say about the UK...it’s still a good and tolerant society and material things are much better generally as are attitudes, than at some mythical time past.

When I wrote the OP I was very angry at the state of affairs.
I'm sure you were Dinahmo as many of us are. We all desperately care for the next generations.
Personally I have lived in France for periods of time three times now throughout my life. In the 70s and 90s it was far easier not having the stupid media depressingly blowing every thing out of proportion on a daily basis.