Little Britain - the state of England today

Alegrias1

Well I was hoping for a grown up discussion rather than sarcasm and ad hominem arguments.

Vain hope I guess.

Just to add that IMO , OP set the tone of ad hominem arguing with her
Why aren't you all caring about the wrongs? And, if you do, why aren't you doing something about it?

MissAdventure
In a nutshell ??

I would no more dream of putting on GN what I do than skateboard down Everest.

MerylStreep

MissAdventure
In a nutshell ??

I would no more dream of putting on GN what I do than skateboard down Everest.

Why not? I sometimes bumble in on GN just to show those who may be blinkered in one area just what others might be doing in a completely different way.
By the way we had 10 toilets in our French property and 3 septic tanks. Believe me a hole in the ground or a compost loo would have caused far less trouble!

I fear if all you know of England is rural, beautiful Dorset and then equally beautiful rural France then what goes on anywhere nowadays must be an awful shock. I do wonder what the people who come to our shores in small boats make of it all. Once here they are trapped on a relatively small island.

MissAdventure

There are riots in France as we speak.
Things set on fire, and tear gas used by police.

Oh dear, tear gas against arsonists, whatever next.

I'm sure it's nice to know I care, though.

Alegrias1

With kudos to those volunteering in their local areas, I think the OP is more concerned with the apparent lack of concern over things such as erosion of environmental standards, lack of protection for tenants and disregard for the commitments we have made to other countries.

Do we care about that? What is everybody doing about that?

Yes. I don’t think I’ve seen a reply from anyone stating what they are doing to right wrongs in this country. Most people seem to be of the opinion that it’s a fantastic place to be. I actually feel guilty that I’ve spent so many years complaining about brexit that I’ve taken my eyes off other things that are happening and haven’t been vocal enough about things. I have made a stand over racism and lost so called friends over it though. And I sign all of the petitions that I agree with. If this countries such a great place why does there seem to be at least one petition a day. Reports on child poverty and lack of decent housing for many people makes for unpleasant reading. Privatisation of the NHS by stealth ditto. I am going to rejoin the Labour Party and be more active although I sometimes want to have a complete break from politics.

Aha I see this is meant to be exclusively about politics and the disgraceful mess the UK is in, so I'll give it a rest now. Maybe the OP's inclusion of depressing British TV, building houses in France with 3 toilets, expats, charitable works confused the main issue but thank you to those who looked beyond and brought up some interesting points.

Alegrias1

With kudos to those volunteering in their local areas, I think the OP is more concerned with the apparent lack of concern over things such as erosion of environmental standards, lack of protection for tenants and disregard for the commitments we have made to other countries.

Do we care about that? What is everybody doing about that?

As it refers to England only, Alegrias, perhaps we should retreat from the thread.
As we both know, Scotland and Wales are perfect havens of civilisation, veritable Utopias, run as they are by the SNP and Labour respectively.

Touchy, touchy.
Methinks they do protest too much.

See, right there! This is your response to a perfectly articulated and reasoned post and yet, when another poster made a flippant, light hearted remark you say Well I was hoping for a grown up discussion rather than sarcasm and ad hominem arguments. Vain hope I guess.

It's difficult to know whether you want just carte blanche agreements with your opinions Alegrias or if you're disagreeable for the hell of it.

the early fifties we moved to Dorset. Parents under 30 with 3 children. We got a council house, possibly because of my Father's job - I don't know. In those days we had one bath a week and didn't have individual towels. The loo was in the bathroom

Ours was outside but at least it was a flushable loo, unlike the one at my aunt's house which was across the yard.

Well, compared to England, that wouldn't be hard....

But you're right, lamenting on how far an old friend has fallen is to be frowned upon.

(Tin hat on )

Chewbacca

^Touchy, touchy.^
Methinks they do protest too much.

See, right there! This is your response to a perfectly articulated and reasoned post and yet, when another poster made a flippant, light hearted remark you say Well I was hoping for a grown up discussion rather than sarcasm and ad hominem arguments. Vain hope I guess.

It's difficult to know whether you want just carte blanche agreements with your opinions Alegrias or if you're disagreeable for the hell of it.

Just for the hell of it often, when the situation demands, and reasoned argument is getting nobody anywhere.

MissAdventure

I'm sure it's nice to know I care, though.

I care because we have relatives who are stuck in France.
I hope they're not rioting because they care about conditions there.

Fair point Callistemon, there’s certainly more effort put into achieving social justice, within the powers of the Welsh Government. They are not perfect by any means, but honest and open about the challenges.

My Uncle Bob had asthma and used to love an argument. He'd seek them out as the adrenaline rush eased his symptoms. We learned early on to avoid Uncle Bob.

There are a few Uncle Bobs on here who take what they want from a post and vent their adversarial spleens, throw in a few insults, preconceptions or put downs e.g. 'Leave it out' or 'So we've all got to pretend to agree have we?' before wandering off down a leafy lane with their adversarial friends the other Uncle Bobs.

These threads are a lot more interesting and productive before the Uncle Bobs stumble upon them.

But on a serious subject, the defence is often brought out, that I don't want anybody to have views other than my own. If somebody is just wrong about something, shouldn't I tell them? I haven't been on here telling people not to vote Tory, or Labour, or Monster Raving Loony. You should if you think that's right.

Having your own opinion about something needs to be based on reality, not perception.

This is why I mostly stay off the religion threads.....

Now which Uncle Bob is going to come straight on and tell me 'You don't need to read these threads if you don't like them.'?

I really do not think that England has fallen

I do.

Not irretrievably, but it has fallen from its place in the world and dragged Scotland, Wales and NI with it.

luluaugust

I fear if all you know of England is rural, beautiful Dorset and then equally beautiful rural France then what goes on anywhere nowadays must be an awful shock. I do wonder what the people who come to our shores in small boats make of it all. Once here they are trapped on a relatively small island.

If you only know Dorset as it is now I can assure you it is no longer as rural and as beautiful as it was when I lived there. back in the fifties.

FYI I lived in London for 22 years before moving to Suffolk. Rural Suffolk maybe but only 9 miles from Ipswich with London, Norwich and Cambridge an easy journey.

When I first lived in London I lived in a flat which if any of your children or grandchildren lived in now you would be horrified.

A very old friend lived in one room in a bomb damaged house near Crystal Palace. Her father had killed himself shortly after returning from Burma. The house was bomb damaged, they shared facilities with other people. My friend,
her two siblings and their mother lived like that for a number of years. Her mother worked as a cleaner.

So please don't tell me that I am priviliged. It so happens that the cost of the land plus the build costs for this house were were less than a 3 bed semi in the home counties 12 years ago.

Nothing wrong with presenting an opinion Alegrias, nothing at all. Except when you so frequently shoot down other, just as well presented and cogent opinions, simply because they don't chime with your own. Credibility and respect is lost.

Alegrias1

I do.

Not irretrievably, but it has fallen from its place in the world and dragged Scotland, Wales and NI with it.

In your opinion.

When HK is listed as one of the top ten places to live in the world one does wonder who compiles these lists.

Chewbacca

Nothing wrong with presenting an opinion Alegrias, nothing at all. Except when you so frequently shoot down other, just as well presented and cogent opinions, simply because they don't chime with your own. Credibility and respect is lost.

What you consider to be well presented and cogent isn't the same as me then Chewbacca. If someone presents such an argument, I'll listen and revise my own views.

If someone presents an argument based on misconceptions and prejudice, and doesn't listen to the other side, dismissing them as woke, or leftie or heaven forfend! from overseas, they can expect what they get.

Just as a point of information can I explain that the (very small by French standards) riots are in protest at the Macron announcement on Monday night about compulsory Covid passports for entry to bars, restaurants, shopping centres, cinemas etc and compulsory vaccinations for health and social care workers.
Since the announcement nearly 3 million people, the vast majority under 40, have signed up for an appointment.
Surveys show that about 70% of people support the policy.
No doubt that a minority will protest, but most people agree that it a very sound strategy in the light of the rise in the Delta variant, especially among the young. Vaccinations are available here from 12+.