The culture war against wokism has been Boris Johnson’s creation and he is being caught out for it.

Interesting that in his rambling and mostly contentless speech yesterday, Johnson made reference to the 'loony left'. This is not a phrase that I would expect a highly educated and supposedly intelligent national leader to make. A 'leader' whose initial declared intention was to unite the country. It's social media stuff. It's dog whistle politics designed to appeal to the lowest common denominator; part of the 'war on woke'. Divisive stuff...

I agree Dinahmo, [Thu 15-Jul-21 21:13:21] although I doubt you can only learn this in a higher education setting.

An argument is something we construct and present. As far as teaching and learning in higher education are concerned, what is important is to determine the special characteristics of academic argument. ... Whilst establishing a universal structure for argument, it allows for the components to vary in content according to the discipline or profession of the subject matter. [The Role of Argument in Higher Education for the Professions - Leeds University]

This part of teaching is now being pushed back into schools. For most of us, our school would expect us to memorise and repeat conclusions. They could be said to have taught us that there is only one answer. 'A' level (and a good teacher) may have filled out on this and seem to be doing so more today.

Your post is a classical example of a strawman argument because I didn't claim what you're saying.

lemongrove

No truth in it at all growstuff intelligent people can think for themselves.
Nobody knows how many people ‘believe’ what they read in the papers or on SM therefore nobody knows how many are ‘manipulated’.
It’s a fallacy to think that only the highly educated can see beyond their noses and that the ‘lower orders’ are gullible.
This philosophy is often bandied about on GN though, usually when annoyed posters can’t get others to agree with them.

I wasn't referring to intelligent people but the effects of education. I'm not retracting my previous post.

Ha I have watched very intelligent people spout utter nonsense in the last couple of years, mostly on social media. Oh and spout bigotry as well as someone has previously mentioned.

No truth in it at all growstuff intelligent people can think for themselves.
Nobody knows how many people ‘believe’ what they read in the papers or on SM therefore nobody knows how many are ‘manipulated’.
It’s a fallacy to think that only the highly educated can see beyond their noses and that the ‘lower orders’ are gullible.
This philosophy is often bandied about on GN though, usually when annoyed posters can’t get others to agree with them.

If it isn’t true how come some newspapers successfully manipulate people by printing untruths (usually front page) that some people believe and very few dispute? Why do they even bother to print such stuff?

Lin52

GrannyGravy13

Dinahmo

Galaxy I think that a decent level of education teaches people to reason and to develop an argument. The less well educated are unable to do this and tend to go by their feelings. It is very difficult to change peoples' feelings. When people believe in something they believe deeply and sincerely so no matter how often they are given accurate information they invariably refuse to accept it.

How condescending…

It certainly is.

More than a grain of truth though.

Galaxy

I dont need to say anything really the thread demonstrates it beautifully. Johnson didnt need to do anything did he? , it's all here in its naked glory.

Yes

Are you going by your feelings Dinah ?!
In any case, you are confusing education and intelligence.
An intelligent person, regardless of education can reason and develop an argument.
I had to laugh at your comments, as they read as if written in another bygone age.

Dinahmo

Galaxy I think that a decent level of education teaches people to reason and to develop an argument. The less well educated are unable to do this and tend to go by their feelings. It is very difficult to change peoples' feelings. When people believe in something they believe deeply and sincerely so no matter how often they are given accurate information they invariably refuse to accept it.

Could your opinion of British folk get any lower?
I think that would be a no ?

Dinahmo

Galaxy I think that a decent level of education teaches people to reason and to develop an argument. The less well educated are unable to do this and tend to go by their feelings. It is very difficult to change peoples' feelings. When people believe in something they believe deeply and sincerely so no matter how often they are given accurate information they invariably refuse to accept it.

Stalin was an intellectual, widely read.
Paul Hollander's book, 'From Benito Mussolini to Hugo Chevez: Intellectuals and a Century of Hero Worship' - is an interesting look at how many supposedly great thinkers Worshipped the likes of Hitler, Mao Zedong, Castro, and others who may not have contributed hugely to a better world.
Rosa Parks was a seamstress.
Mohamed Bouazizi was a street vendor.
Malala Yousafzai earned a Nobel prize at the age of 17, standing up for what she believed in, largely based no doubt on her feelings - of empathy for other girls.

I dont need to say anything really the thread demonstrates it beautifully. Johnson didnt need to do anything did he? , it's all here in its naked glory.

GrannyGravy13

Dinahmo

Galaxy I think that a decent level of education teaches people to reason and to develop an argument. The less well educated are unable to do this and tend to go by their feelings. It is very difficult to change peoples' feelings. When people believe in something they believe deeply and sincerely so no matter how often they are given accurate information they invariably refuse to accept it.

How condescending…

It certainly is.

Dinahmo

Galaxy I think that a decent level of education teaches people to reason and to develop an argument. The less well educated are unable to do this and tend to go by their feelings. It is very difficult to change peoples' feelings. When people believe in something they believe deeply and sincerely so no matter how often they are given accurate information they invariably refuse to accept it.

How condescending…

Galaxy I think that a decent level of education teaches people to reason and to develop an argument. The less well educated are unable to do this and tend to go by their feelings. It is very difficult to change peoples' feelings. When people believe in something they believe deeply and sincerely so no matter how often they are given accurate information they invariably refuse to accept it.

Blimey I must let my AC know they are old and uneducated, perhaps they dreamt their A levels and degrees!

They have had their voice heard I wonder how many now that they can see the damage wish they had voted differently

Yes but I believe that those who are older and those who have lower educational attainment are entitled to have their voice heard in a democracy.

I don'r remember the Remain campaign equating leave supporters with low education and racism before the EU referendum, but I do know that careful unbiased analyses of the characteristics of leave voters after the referendum did find that to be true, along with other findings such as that older people were more likely to have voted leave.

Don’t want to get into the politics if it but can’t stand the term woke, sick of hearing it. Just treat people as you find them.

The talk amongst Labour supporters and activists is just as bad though, all this talk about the 'Metropolitan Elite' versus Northern 'working class'.
That’s what I meant when I said the Remain campaign equated a Leave vote with low education and racism. As a Remainer myself I found that uncomfortable, and that it would feed into the ‘elite’ stereotype.

Please, GillT57, have you any idea what the rationale was for that statement

It is a hard one to untangle, that's for sure. I did point out that very few terrified Syrians would be coming here from Dover to buy a £400k+ house. Someone else pointed out that we have taken only a few migrant families in our main town, and that they have to go on the housing list like everyone else, but you know how it is; everyone knows someone who lives next door to a migrant family who were given a five bedroom house, fully furnished, and a car. And so the division and resentment continues, based on urban myths and downright lies.

I cannot remember the exact phrase, but it has been said that Johnson's government managed to convince the barely managing that it was the fault of the not managing, people blame downwards when they should be blaming up. Don't criticise the people claiming top up benefits, blame the employers who are not paying enough. I have a cousin whose life has not gone quite as well as she would have liked, some her fault, some not, but she has been convinced that it is all the fault of the 'illegals', that somehow a dinghy load of frightened young men from Syria have taken what should have been hers.

Sorry that sounds as though I dont believe in the benefits of immigration which I very much do. But for years we had the drip drip of wonky bananas etc and there was no positive counter narrative. They and dont ask me to define 'they'! were too complacent that everyone thought in the way they did.