"gesture politics"

Saetana

There are plenty of BAME folks who do not like the taking of the knee - it stems from the killing of George Floyd which, frankly, has nothing to do with us in the UK. Its a dog whistle political gesture - I do wonder how many footballers really want to "take the knee" or are just going along because they are feeling pressurised.

It is not all to do with George floyd, as has been pointed out many times.
It’s a symbolic gesture that’s all. Just like clapping for the nhs.

Good post eloethan

I see the Olympic football teams are taking the knee.

As polar indicated.

It is a peaceful powerful message that infuriates the racists and reminds us all of the continued failure to rid society of racism.

I wouldn't bend the knee myself ( probably wouldn't be able to get up) but if people want to do that, well it's up to them. I'd rather it was another type of gesture or song,even but I'm not sure what. It is too American for me, I have a prejudice against most things American I'm afraid. As for clapping people doing their job,no . Give them a pay rise instead.

I believe the US represents itself as the greatest democracy in the world. Acting on this belief, it has been keen to influence how other countries are run and has even had a hand in destabilising leaders and governments. I therefore think that what happens in the US matters to the UK and to the rest of the world.

Aside from that, while I don't believe our police force and other public institutions are as blatantly racist as in the US, we too have significant issues on a number of levels, not least the disproportionate number of black people who have died in police custody or as a result of police actions.

I don't think the term "dog whistle politics" correctly describes the action of taking the knee:

"Dog-whistle politics is a form of political rhetoric in which coded language is used, thereby ensuring that a message reaches a target audience without making the general public aware of the specific content of the message. Much like a dog whistle, which is only audible to ears which can hear sounds in a certain frequency, dog-whistle politics often slides below the radar of the average citizen, allowing politicians to target certain groups of the electorate with very specific language." (Merriam-Webster)

Taking the knee is a simple action taken to demonstrate a commitment to anti-racism, and its meaning is not "coded" or "covert". I would describe Thatcher's "swamping" remark and Johnson's "letterbox" remark as dog whistles in that the they were a coded way of "othering" certain sections of the population in order to reinforce hostile attitudes and garner votes.

There are plenty of BAME folks who do not like the taking of the knee - it stems from the killing of George Floyd which, frankly, has nothing to do with us in the UK. Its a dog whistle political gesture - I do wonder how many footballers really want to "take the knee" or are just going along because they are feeling pressurised.

choughdancer

Who would have thought that a simple, harmless, dignified action that has a powerful message would cause such anger?
No damage done, no police required, no injuries caused, no arrests; just the point of solidarity with others being made. I think that Guto Harri being taken off TV for showing his support is disgraceful.

There’s the rub I guess. There’s nothing bad about the gesture so it makes some people angry simply because of that. They want to be able to say it’s damaging-but it isn’t. I guess it must really infuriate that particular section of the population.

Yes, that!

Sorry I will not be bullied into agreeing with others just because they think they are right!

Who is bullying you, Silverlady333?

I do actually think that en masse, public condemnation of racism, and support for those who are subjected to it could turn the tide.
Who is a racist going to spout bile to, if they see that everyone will stand up to it?

Eloethan I said I would curtsy to the Queen not take the knee. There is a difference. PolarBear2 I would prefer standing on one leg with a flower in my teeth. It doesn't matter what you do. Do you really think hard core racists (the racist football thugs) are going to care a dam about gestures? The footballers doing this at the match are giving ammunition to the racists to hurl back. I was always taught sticks and stones will break my bones but words will never hurt you.
I was bullied throughout my entire school life but my mother taught me to hold my head up high and ignore the bullies. you don't have to be any particular colour , race or creed there will always be others who bully others because it makes them feel good, because they get a kick out of it!
Sorry I will not be bullied into agreeing with others just because they think they are right!

Who would have thought that a simple, harmless, dignified action that has a powerful message would cause such anger?
No damage done, no police required, no injuries caused, no arrests; just the point of solidarity with others being made. I think that Guto Harri being taken off TV for showing his support is disgraceful.

Great thread Eloethan- just how I feel. The hypocrisy is so vast.

Silverlady333 Surely curtsying to the queen is subservient - it is a clear statement of the superiority of one person over another? That's OK I suppose if you think the queen or people of royal descent are, because of their lineage, inherently superior but I don't. Taking the knee is a statement and is not performed as an act of deference or submission to another person or group of people.

I completely agree with your post earlier Lilyflower

I despair reading this thread. ITS NOT ABOUT THE KNEE!! It doesn’t matter if they stand on one leg with a flower in their teeth. It’s about THE MESSAGE. it’s like several of you have your fingers in your ears singing ‘la la la not listening’. But… I think you’re in a fast shrinking minority now. The tide is turning and you’re left on the beach if you don’t start paying proper attention.

Those who think that taking the knee is subservient - who do you think people are kneeling to? Where is the subservience here? I could understand if the kneelers were kneeling to a person, or even a statue - but they aren't.

I would like to make a gesture towards Priti Patel’s politics but it would involve two fingers

I do not consider myself as racist (although there are some cultural practices that I abhor intently, such as FGM). However I will not take the knee! I will curtsy to the Queen and bow my head for fallen soldiers. to me taking the knee is subservient (I watched 'Game of Thrones). There must surely be another gesture we can use. In any case I do not think it will make an difference to any football racist thugs and indeed may incite them to be even more horrible!

Galaxy

Am laughing at the idea that people would view kneeling in Britain as some sort of defeat, when we have spent all the time I have been alive showing utter submission in physical gestures to one family, but am sure that's different.

Strange, isn't it?

Maybe because the British don't have a leg to stand on going on their past behaviour?

Am laughing at the idea that people would view kneeling in Britain as some sort of defeat, when we have spent all the time I have been alive showing utter submission in physical gestures to one family, but am sure that's different.

I agree.

True gesture politics is clapping all those folk working their hearts out in the NHS, then offering them a pay cut.

The message?

We really don’t value you.

Sorry it was Dominic Raab.
As they say on Mumsnet RTFT.

Matt Hancock cockily said last year he would only take the knee for The Queen and his wife. Well he has since shown what respect he has for his wife.

Many of them enjoyed sneering at people who wanted to support the taking of the knee.
I find them all sickening. They just remind me of the pigs in Animal Farm.