"gesture politics"

Kneeling has, throughout history and across cultures and races, has signalled subservience and defeat and everybody, however much they pretend that events of the last few seconds of world history link a submissive gesture with a one off event, knows that the losers kowtow to the winners.

It is too much for a proud, able, and independent people to be asked to abase themselves in submission because a man did a bad thing thousands of miles away.

Should the British be seen to be kneeling to others the world would view it as defeat and any good we could do in the world would be stymied.

We should not be dictated to by the Woke, pursuing a secret anti Establishment agenda, and allow them to define the terms of engagement. Kneeling is not a mark of respect because they say it is. It means what it has ever meant.

I do not, for a moment, believe that we live in a racist, or institutionally racist country. Most people are decent and tolerant and show this in their daily politeness and respectful dealings with others. Hard cases make bad law as they say and allowing the anarchistic to weaponise the Floyd case has been a real act of folly.

I write as someone who would never treat another human being on the basis of anything but their character and behaviour.

blondenana

I never? heard of taking the knee until the George Floyd murder,but i don't think anyone should be forced to do it,
How do we know all the English footballers agree with it,just because they do it
It seemed to become very popular when BLM started
I remember when it first started,Dominic Raab said the only ones he would take the knee for were his wife and the queen

Are you listening to the message?

I think this tweet is very apt in this thread.

Dear @pritipatel
— was not this also, quite literally, "gesture politics"? Perhaps you'd like to rethink... no, sorry, I mean perhaps you'd like to think.

I never? heard of taking the knee until the George Floyd murder,but i don't think anyone should be forced to do it,
How do we know all the English footballers agree with it,just because they do it
It seemed to become very popular when BLM started
I remember when it first started,Dominic Raab said the only ones he would take the knee for were his wife and the queen

GrannyGravy13

Eloethan regarding Ms.Patel saying that taking the knee was gesture politics , taking the knee is definitely a gesture and it is definitely political.

And the message?

I agree with Priti Patel - taking the knee is the very epitome of "gesture politics", in that it does nothing whatsoever to combat actual racism. Whatever point they were trying to make with this specific gesture has long since been lost in the politics - most other sporting organisations have stopped taking the knee for this very reason. I wonder what will happen at the Olympics - they have an outright ban on any kind of political gesture, I've already heard the England women's football team plan to take the knee.

We already had an alternative to taking the knee. The Kick it Out campaign seems to have disappeared unfortunately.

My daughter has just stopped attending a local playgroup because of racist comments she heard being made. Racism is very widespread. Worse since Brexit I think. Like Trump, BJ has made racism acceptable again.

I'm in favour of a 'Take the Knee' Thursday icanhandthemback. I'd need to plan in advance. I can't manage spontaneous kneeling these days.

Oh for goodness sake this whole thread is like the person who tries to win an argument on semantics rather than substance.

The England team made a statement about racism; it doesn't matter in the slightest whether or not they got the process slightly wrong (unless they had tried to do it by wearing white hoods and burning crosses).

And as has been said on another thread, a government which encourages people to clap for the NHS then offers them a 1% pay rise has a lot learn about gestures, and indeed about politics.

I'd quite like a "Take the Knee" Thursday to show support against racism. Maybe if enough people did it those who are targeted with racism would realise that we don't like it either. I'm not suggesting it would make a huge difference to their lives but I would hope it would show that there were more people who support them than are against.

When my son went to Huddersfield for the first time, he couldn't believe the overt racism he heard specifically targeted at those it would hurt most. He was absolutely shocked and although he loved the girl who came from there, he vowed never to move up there.

I think it is all overhyped. I do not see the point of aimlessly clapping outside one’s door as making any difference to the staff of the NHS
And ‘taking the knee’ and harping on about black lives mattering is more divisive than ever - judging by what our fine young footballers were subjected to. Bringing a distinction to one section of the community rather than being accepting of everyone just gives those who choose to be ‘-ist’ a reason for more dissent

It is our Tory government which has defunded the police

westendgirl

By the way Peter Brookes is not an opportunist , but a highly respected cartoonist in the true sense of the word , who has done brilliant work . Cartoons are a commentary which should be read as written pieces, and therefore not always funny .

Do you approve of this cartoon?

GrannyGravy13

Eloethan regarding Ms.Patel saying that taking the knee was gesture politics , taking the knee is definitely a gesture and it is definitely political.

Better a non-violent, brief gesture than a race riot. Martin Luther King would have approved.

GrannyGravy13

Cartoon from The Times of Priti Patel.

I find this disgusting on so many levels.

That is obscene. There is no excuse or reason for that.

Esspee

The problem with “taking the knee” is that the Black Lives Matter has associated it with the appalling death of George Floyd.
I am 100% against racism and my life demonstrates this. I would never make, or encourage others to make the gesture which glorifies George Floyd. He didn’t deserve what happened to him but was a thoroughly detestable person.

Taking the knee to show solidarity with the anti racism movement was around waaaaay before the George Floyd murder. Years and years before. Anyone who is anti racism knows this. I lost a good friend years ago because we disagreed about it.

Also, many people who have committed horrific crimes have suffered the death penalty. Obviously I don't support violet crime. But I'm still anti death penalty.

By the way Peter Brookes is not an opportunist , but a highly respected cartoonist in the true sense of the word , who has done brilliant work . Cartoons are a commentary which should be read as written pieces, and therefore not always funny .

Eloethan regarding Ms.Patel saying that taking the knee was gesture politics , taking the knee is definitely a gesture and it is definitely political.

The black lives matter has been appropriated by people whose sole ambition is to cause violence and disorder. They have called for the police to be defunded,our police are certainly not perfect but this has become a political gesture. Pritty Patel has come in for some appalling racism all her life she is merely saying that the movement has become politicised.

This thread started as a comment on gesture politics and seems to have developed into an anti racist thread.
Going back to the NHS. They truly deserve a pay rise and did so anyway before Covid-19. There are many others who have also been affected such as the police, teachers, shop workers, transport workers and many more. They are all deserving of a rise but I doubt the country can afford it. Many people even in private organisations such as my DH haven’t had a rise in over 3 years and have no expectations of one anytime soon.

As usual opportunists leap at the chance to insult and abuse 51%of society in one fell rubbish not funny or relevant badly produced cartoon! Not needed and badly executed.

I don't agree that we should adopt a "British version" ?! .by having a globally recognised action the message becomes global! The red cross is so recognised globally. A strong message needs an instantly recognisable marque.

Yes, isn’t it GG
A cartoon of men ( from the look of the hands)trying to gag a woman and what she says....we should be used to it eh?

Cartoon from The Times of Priti Patel.

I find this disgusting on so many levels.

Priti Patel has been on the receiving end of social media racist attacks for a long time. I think her wording has been taken wrongly. I think she means that taking the knee has no practical purpose. She wants people to do more than a gesture.