"gesture politics"

Charlie Williams!! I spent ages trying to remember the name. Sorry all. I’m also sorry if I caused offence. I was just trying to say racism is heavily ingrained. We can be better but it doesn’t hurt to admit we’re not perfect. Taking the knee - which this is about - helps highlight the injustice and makes us pay attention. Happy Sunday everyone. X

Charlie Williams from Barnsley was one of Britain's first black professional footballers before he was a comedian on TV.
I don't think we have a right to judge his conforming to his rascist peers level of comedy. It was a horrible time and thank God most of us see it for the disgusting dirt it was.
Seeing Charlie Williams on TV was good for black kids watching and an influence on Lenny Henry sometimes people felt that was the best way to deal with the abhorrent rascism by laughing at themselves.
Hopefully in the future the rascists will be defeated and those who defend them. hopefully evolution will rid us of such ignorance and disgusting attitudes.

I don't think that it is a Freudian slip, no
Charlie Williams said 'I don't have any regrets, I chose jokes that I thought would suit the audience'
How very sad and indicative of the racism that is so deeply ingrained in our society
Then and sadly, even now

Charlie Williams.

Freudian slip, maybe.

PS I had no idea who Charlie White was and had to google him. Still no idea.

Polarbear2

I was born in 1947 and so was a child and teenager when the Black and White Minstrel Show was on. For me, it was akin to listening to the Billy Cotton Band Show. No way. I think that others of my generation would feel the same way.

I saw the Tamla Motown Road show in 1965. Before that other black musicians had toured in England. They were surprised at the welcome that they received and that they could stay in the same hotels and eat in the same restaurants as white people. Admittedly not the same attitude as pertained in Rackman's London.

Saetana

Polarbear2 Oh please - that is insinuating everyone who does not support taking the knee is racist! I was watching an interesting interview on the BBC a few days ago with a black professor who said this is exactly the problem - people should not be labelled as racist because they do not support the empty gesture of taking the knee. As I said earlier, taking the knee does absolutely nothing to end actual racism - please do tell if you happen to know differently.

I didn’t say or imply racism. I said it made people think about an issue they’d prefer to ignore. I’m not sure that’s the same?? I actually think many people over ~60 are a tiny bit racist even if we think we aren’t. The world we grew up in was very different to the one we have now. Think about those 70s tv programmes which wouldn’t see the light of day now. Comedians like Charlie White? The Black and White Minstrels? It had an influence on us surely? I think racism and other prejudices will disappear over time as our children and their children grow up and become adults. I’m less racist than my mum. I try hard not to be racist at all but I’m sure I trip up sometimes as I’m not perfect. My kids hardly notice race - it’s just not a thing. Their kids will inherit a very different, hopefully better, world.

I'm sure it will have an impact on people who post racist things online, knowing that others are keeping a watchful eye.
And I really so think people are, of late.

Has anyone else noticed that a popular defence of people who disapprove of taking the knee is that "lots of black people don't like it either"?

Saetana you are going to be disappointed if you are expecting people to see the sportsmen taking the knee and have a Damascene moment, where they suddenly realise they are lifelong racists and decide to change their ways.

But if teams are spending a few seconds making a sign to indicate that racism is still a problem, and that makes people think about it - like we are doing now - then it might be useful to ask why people are so against it?

Take the knee.
Don't take it.
It's hardly worth arguing about because it's peaceful, hurts nobody (apart from people with bad knees) and shows support for a good cause.
I don't remember all this fuss when people were clapping for the nhs workers.

Polarbear2 Oh please - that is insinuating everyone who does not support taking the knee is racist! I was watching an interesting interview on the BBC a few days ago with a black professor who said this is exactly the problem - people should not be labelled as racist because they do not support the empty gesture of taking the knee. As I said earlier, taking the knee does absolutely nothing to end actual racism - please do tell if you happen to know differently.

^ trying to defend the right of all of us to go about our daily lives unhindered by idiotic demonstrations which as we have seen over the past few years, can bring whole neighbourhoods to a standstill.^

Since when did that become a 'right'?

Saetana

The problem is, whatever "symbolism" taking the knee had, it has long since worn out with the general public. Like the clapping for the NHS - it had its time and place but, after a while, it was decided it was an empty gesture. This is what taking the knee is - it does NOTHING to solve real racism, it is just an empty gesture.

See, it’s not. It’s not empty because it annoys people who don’t want to have to think about how rubbish it is to be a person of colour. ?‍♀️

“ Why should a relatively few protesters have the right to do that? They don’t do they?”

Did somebody say that to ms Pankhurst et al ?

This proposed legislation is simply trying to defend the right of all of us to go about our daily lives unhindered by idiotic demonstrations which as we have seen over the past few years, can bring whole neighbourhoods to a standstill.

Why should a relatively few protesters have the right to do that? They don’t do they?

The government are NOT taking away the right to peaceful protest - they are just putting some limits on it.

There are a lot of entrants up for "comment of the day" today, but I'd like to nominate this one please

The government are NOT taking away the right to peaceful protest - they are just putting some limits on it. I live in Bristol where we have had around FOURTEEN so-called kill the bill protests in the last two months alone, not to mention a number of protests about other issues. I guarantee if you did a survey of residents most people would say that, whilst they support the right to peaceful protest, they are totally fed up of having their lives disrupted on average once a week.

Let us not forget that the first so-called peaceful protest for "kill the bill" (in Bristol) resulted in a riot with police vans set on fire (one with officers still inside), the police station being attacked, and injuries to around 50 police officers and a similar number of protesters.

The problem is, whatever "symbolism" taking the knee had, it has long since worn out with the general public. Like the clapping for the NHS - it had its time and place but, after a while, it was decided it was an empty gesture. This is what taking the knee is - it does NOTHING to solve real racism, it is just an empty gesture.

The crazy thing is the people that can see the underhand things the government are doing are often also vaccine deniers as well because they don’t thrust anything they do.

The proposals re treating journalists who disclose issues that should clearly be in the public domain are truly frightening.

And to think we now have a government that is taking away our right to protest peacefully and nobody seems bothered about it. And journalists won’t be allowed to call them out without facing imprisonment. Everything people have faught for for years is slowly being taken away from us.

MayBee70

It’s the sort of thing that people end up doing when years of peaceful protest isn’t getting them anywhere though. And nowhere near as bad as blowing things up which I believe they also did.

Gosh!

www.bl.uk/votes-for-women/articles/suffragettes-violence-and-militancy#

It’s the sort of thing that people end up doing when years of peaceful protest isn’t getting them anywhere though. And nowhere near as bad as blowing things up which I believe they also did.

No it wasn't. It was a stupid act that brought shame on the movement.

What is so wrong with gestures? Emily Davidson throwing herself in front of the king's horse at Epsom in 1913 was a very powerful gesture IMO.

Our history is littered with gestures and demonstrations ( a gesture writ large) - serfs against landowners, farm workers against landowners because of enclosures, the Tolpuddle Martyrs and the 60,000 who demonstrated in St Peter's Field, Manchester. There are many more examples.

Sometimes gestures work.