PMQs 21/07/2021 - I know, what's the point?

The idea that this government follows any rules - written or unwritten, is so much eyewash. The idea that they are running a none democratic government for the sake of the country is so much worse and should mean we end up with some people in prison.

If they want to change the rules, then we need to be asked first. We do not need a PM who decides just what and will change when not a single person was asked in the last election. They didn't/dont have the majority of this country in favour of them even being in power.

Greeneyedgirl

Yes I know Maizie but it’s how our so called democracy works. I feel completely unrepresented where a I live.
If voting changed anything they’d ban it. Ken Livingstone

Sickening, isn't it...

Though I think that Livingstone was wrong. Look what voting has done for the UK in the last 6 years. Changed it completely.

Yes I know Maizie but it’s how our so called democracy works. I feel completely unrepresented where a I live.
If voting changed anything they’d ban it. Ken Livingstone

Greeneyedgirl

Isn’t that what populist leaders and governments do Alegrias1 and what this country voted for?

Just the periodic reminder that this country didn't vote for this. More people voted against this government than voted for it.

And no lectures on FPTP, please. I'm a grandmother. I can suck eggs

Isn’t that what populist leaders and governments do Alegrias1 and what this country voted for?

Exactly Alegrias1.

Right now Kali, I'd go for almost any honest person that wasn't trying to dismantle the apparatus of our society and pit groups of people against each other to try to shore up their own inadequate personalities. So nobody in the cabinet, that's for sure, not that I can think of.

I am sure the ERG is plotting against him- and waiting for the right time to stab him in back. Can you really imagine anyone, anyone at all, in ERG, or in Cabinet, who could replace him and not be even worse? Or that can be trusted.

I am stunned by the Conservative voters who defend a process that says we can listen to lie after lie from their Great Leader but the person calling them out is punished.

Surely even they can see that it is anti-democratic, anti-justice and anti-respect for the people of this country. Just telling us that this is a parliamentary rule (which we all knew anyway) is like saying people are only following orders. It is not a good rule; it is not a democratic rule.

When will these people have the guts to oppose this man who is as someone who worked for him described ... the most accomplished liar in public life – perhaps the best liar ever to serve as prime minister,". Another who once worked for Johnson said He has mastered the use of error, omission, exaggeration, diminution, equivocation and flat denial. He has perfected casuistry, circumlocution, false equivalence and false analogy. He is equally adept at the ironic jest, the fib and the grand lie; the weasel word and the half-truth; the hyperbolic lie, the obvious lie, and the bullshit lie – which may inadvertently be true.

This man must go. I know you will cry out "but who will replace him?" and I will tell you. There will be someone and he/she must be honest. That is the most basic thing I need in the person my little bit of power is handed too - why isn't it yours?

Yes, the ERG - they only used him so far- but he has not delivered what they want- NO Deal. They will stab in in the back as soon as he has served his 'purpose' and without any hesitation.

Am I wrong in thinking that the rebel Conservatives that are trying to oust him are from the far right of the party?

I liked Bercow. I can see why the Conservative Party was so delighted to welcome his replacement. the new Speaker is, to say the least, pretty feeble.

Alegrias1

What a state of affairs.... we're stuck with a lying, amoral, populist buffoon because anyone with morals in the party he leads has been ejected or has left.

Is there none of them who could be a better PM? Nobody? Not one?

Three and a half long hours pass.
300,000 Gransnetters.
Not one suggestion.

That's bad, isn't it?
For the Tory party I mean, not Gransnetters.

What a state of affairs.... we're stuck with a lying, amoral, populist buffoon because anyone with morals in the party he leads has been ejected or has left.

Is there none of them who could be a better PM? Nobody? Not one?

hhhmmmm that is a tough one. Let me think ...


No-one!

But who is there to replace him?

So, nightsky, as a conservative voter who seems appalled at the lies, what are you going to do? If you do nothing you are complicit. Do you not feel the need to write to your MP? Storming parliament is of course a plan. I can see a march of conservative ladies carrying banners saying Johnson is disgusting might actually have some impact. If they feel their base isn’t happy they’ll soon pay attention. Good luck - I’ll watch with interest. ?

The only crumb of comfort for me in the gloom about our ruling party, is that Johnson’s popularity is waning and his erstwhile supporters are waking from their reverie according to the latest polls.
you can fool some of the people……

Isn’t it time that parliament is dragged into the twenty first century? Sometimes it’s just pure pantomime. Good fun to watch sometimes but not when we have the sort of problems facing this country and the world at the moment.

Parsley3

^The Speaker is NOT doing his job. He should stop Johnson if he does not answer, remind him of his duty, and then remind him again- then ask him to again to answer. If he does not, he should be held in contempt, asked to leave the House.^
I am reading John Bercow’s autobiography just now (I know, but I am at a loose end) and this is what he has to say on the question of why he did not insist that ministers answer the question asked.

‘If I were to do so, I would cease to be a referee and become instead a player of the game, which the House does not want. The Speaker is not responsible for the content of answers by ministers.’

He goes on to say that question dodging should be obvious and that people should make their own judgment on it, which we have.
So it looks like the present Speaker has to stay out of it.

Interesting, thanks. I will read the book soon.

But honestly I disagree. Of course The Speaker is not responsible for the content of the answers. How could he?
But he is responsible for the PM or representatives answering the question asked. Otherwise, what is the point.

The Speaker (deputy) had no hesitation but to become a referee and send Dawn Butler out (yes, I know, it is in the rules ..) .

But yes, the vast majority of us have made a judgement, and a very harsh one, on his avoiding tactics - attacks, rants and just saying louder and louder 'vaccines'.

Lincslass

PippaZ

I do wonder just how those who support Johnson in his lies deal with their own lives.

IT WAS CLAIMED: Vaccines have severed the link between Covid-19 infections and serious disease or death.
THIS IS INCORRECT. Vaccinated people are much less likely to catch Covid-19, or get seriously ill or die from it, but the link between infections and deaths has not been removed completely.

This is only one of the lies - but it matters. It's almost as if the Johnson supporters brush it away as if truth and accuracy are "not their thing". Is that how these people deal with those in their own lives? Does accuracy no longer matter to them. If I owed them £1,000 would they be happy to get £800 as being close but not exact?

Who is dismissing ˋtruth and accuracy as not their thing´, haven’t seen anyone on here. Personally as a Conservative voter,I could not bear to vote for Corbyn or his agenda, I am disgusted that Johnson will not answer questions, or at least apologise for his mistakes , but to smear all his voters with that phrase, to say how do they manage their lives, basically calling us liars, how dare you be so rude and condescending. What shall we Conservatives do , storm Parliament as In America. I’m hoping the rebels will do their job and oust him. If my view is okay with you.

We deal with our lives very well thank you very much.

And as for saying that ‘truth and accuracy’ are not their thing, what a b….. cheek.

Personally as a Conservative voter, I could not bear to vote for Corbyn or his agenda

Other options were available.

I don't think Johnson makes mistakes, I think he carries on with his own agenda regardless of the effect it has on anybody else. If the rebels don't oust Johnson, may I respectfully ask how long you would consider supporting the party? What if we end up with someone even worse?

PippaZ

I do wonder just how those who support Johnson in his lies deal with their own lives.

IT WAS CLAIMED: Vaccines have severed the link between Covid-19 infections and serious disease or death.
THIS IS INCORRECT. Vaccinated people are much less likely to catch Covid-19, or get seriously ill or die from it, but the link between infections and deaths has not been removed completely.

This is only one of the lies - but it matters. It's almost as if the Johnson supporters brush it away as if truth and accuracy are "not their thing". Is that how these people deal with those in their own lives? Does accuracy no longer matter to them. If I owed them £1,000 would they be happy to get £800 as being close but not exact?

Who is dismissing ˋtruth and accuracy as not their thing´, haven’t seen anyone on here. Personally as a Conservative voter,I could not bear to vote for Corbyn or his agenda, I am disgusted that Johnson will not answer questions, or at least apologise for his mistakes , but to smear all his voters with that phrase, to say how do they manage their lives, basically calling us liars, how dare you be so rude and condescending. What shall we Conservatives do , storm Parliament as In America. I’m hoping the rebels will do their job and oust him. If my view is okay with you.

The Speaker is NOT doing his job. He should stop Johnson if he does not answer, remind him of his duty, and then remind him again- then ask him to again to answer. If he does not, he should be held in contempt, asked to leave the House.
I am reading John Bercow’s autobiography just now (I know, but I am at a loose end) and this is what he has to say on the question of why he did not insist that ministers answer the question asked.

‘If I were to do so, I would cease to be a referee and become instead a player of the game, which the House does not want. The Speaker is not responsible for the content of answers by ministers.’

He goes on to say that question dodging should be obvious and that people should make their own judgment on it, which we have.
So it looks like the present Speaker has to stay out of it.

And Johnson continues to say that if we’d still been in the EU we would not have been able to pursue the vaccination programme that we did. This has been disproved but he still says it.