“Johnson is … the most accomplished liar in public life – perhaps the best liar ever to serve as prime minister,” he said. “He has mastered the use of error, omission, exaggeration, diminution, equ

That headline could well be used for Nicola Sturgeon, a woman that is a passing acquaintance of the truth.

This thread is about Johnson. If you wish to give examples of some other leader’s lies, then start a thread about it.

grannypiper

That headline could well be used for Nicola Sturgeon, a woman that is a passing acquaintance of the truth.

Maybe we can conclude with your comparison that to be a leader of a country one needs to be a liar Grannypiper!

I think the much deeper question that needs to be asked is why since the turn of the century the quality of those at the top of the various political hierarchies has so deteriorated.

Good government depends on having an effective opposition and we haven't had that for a long time. Those at the top of both major parties are almost exclusively second rate and mediocre.

Political parties and their membership and leadership evolve and develop from their rank and file, who are the ordinary people in the country, it follows that it is people like us who are responsible for this deterioration and in whose hands any improvement must lie.

We can wield very little influence individually M0nica. I would agree we should use what we have but we also need the Lords, the Commons and the Media to play their part.

I think the much deeper question that needs to be asked is why since the turn of the century the quality of those at the top of the various political hierarchies has so deteriorated.

Which century are you referring to, MOnica?

Are you harking back to the glory days of Gladstone and Disraeli?

Because, there has never been a continuous stream of high calibre leadership talent running the country. The 20th C was no better and no worse than the preceding century and we have no idea what the next 80 years will bring in the 21st C.

Though I agree that we seem to have hit a bit of a bad patch with the tories...

vegansrock

This thread is about Johnson. If you wish to give examples of some other leader’s lies, then start a thread about it.

You mean like you did on the previous page?

grannypiper

That headline could well be used for Nicola Sturgeon, a woman that is a passing acquaintance of the truth.

The headline could cover many Leaders and PM’s.....but shsssh, we aren’t allowed to mention them apparently.?

I agree with MaizieD on her last post, with one caveat...we could have hit a worse patch if Comrade Corbyn had managed to get into Number Ten.

My impression of him is that his values are "old-fashioned" - he's a conviction politician - a bit like David Gauke, Dominic Grieve or Ken Clarke. I don't agree with all their political views, but I do think they thought they were doing the best for their country, which I don't believe of Johnson or most in the current government.

I agree and like many on here, I admire the eloquence of his language as he points out what everyone should be able to see, assuming they want to; Johnson is a charlatan and a self serving liar. He must be panicking now as covid19 is no longer covering up the mess of everything else and his bluster of 'but vaccines' cannot be used as the answer for everything anymore. I have said this many times, but my hatred of him is beyond politics; I find his moral code, his casual cheating and lying totally unacceptable in public office. He is a disgrace, brings shame upon this country and says an awful lot about the people who seem willing to forgive him his unacceptable behaviour as long as they are getting what they want ie Brexit.

I admire his use of the English language too, but read it and then imagine Rees Mogg writing it ( he uses similar sort of language at times) would many on here ( apart from Monica) have read it with such pleasure I wonder?

Because GillT what was on offer at the last GE was so much worse ( the Chuckle Brothers in Number Ten) and yes, getting Brexit across the threshold.

I know why you and many others voted for Johnson lemongrove, but only time will tell on that. I was not prepared to elect Corbyn into No10, but that didn't mean that i completely abandoned my moral code and chose a serial liar. Your comment about Rees-Mogg is petty, he is a as bad, if not worse than Johnson to my mind. Johnson is what he is, a moral vacuum with no loyalty to partners or the truth, always has been. Whereas Rees-Mogg is very devout, very religious, and as such is obviously prepared to ignore his personal beliefs for the sake of his political career, hypocrite of the highest order. How anyone can be happy with this is beyond me

So, you weren’t prepared to vote for Corbyn or Johnson...in that case you were part of either the election of Corbyn or Johnson.
Being saintly about it ? doesn’t butter any parsnips.

My point about Rees Mogg isn’t petty at all, just pointing out that many intelligent people can use language in a certain way, but it wouldn’t be appreciated unless it was rubbishing BJ.

www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/may/19/jacob-rees-mogg-book-the-victorians-12-titans-who-forged-britain

Just leaving this here....

Alegrias1

www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/may/19/jacob-rees-mogg-book-the-victorians-12-titans-who-forged-britain

Just leaving this here....

Yes I remember that, and the mockery it drew at the time.

He is a very silly little man I think.

Total digression but …

lemongrove

So, you weren’t prepared to vote for Corbyn or Johnson...in that case you were part of either the election of Corbyn or Johnson.
Being saintly about it ? doesn’t butter any parsnips.

Sigh. Unlike some, I was not prepared to go against my beliefs, my moral code, to elect a person who I consider despicable, but each to their own lemon. I did not like Corbyn as he did not represent my beliefs either so sadly, like hundreds of thousands of people, my vote did not count under the FPTP system. My vote may have come to nothing, but I can sleep at night knowing that I had did not put this vile administration in place. I live in a constituency where a goat with a blue rosette ( or more likely a horse) would be elected, quite ironic really as all the farmers are beginning to realise what a catastrophe Brexit is, but that is the subject for another thread.

Lucca

Total digression but …

Aah yes, this AN Wilson, no more historian than I am
www.britannica.com/biography/A-N-Wilson

He’s not bad though…

An esteemed biographer himself, Wilson wrote books on Sir Walter Scott, John Milton, Hilaire Belloc, Leo Tolstoy, C.S. Lewis, Jesus Christ, the Apostle Paul, Iris Murdoch, Victoria, and Charles Darwin, among others. His popular histories included God’s Funeral (1999), The Victorians (2002), London: A Short History (2004), After the Victorians (2005), and The Elizabethans (2011). Wilson also composed essays on religion and contributed regularly to several London newspapers.

lemongrove

I admire his use of the English language too, but read it and then imagine Rees Mogg writing it ( he uses similar sort of language at times) would many on here ( apart from Monica) have read it with such pleasure I wonder?

Really? He knows some uncommon words but goes out of his way to use them inappropriately in the hope that it will impress.

And - it may just be me - but his accent always reminds me of an American faking an English accent who can't quite hide his drawl.

MaizieD PMS:Blair, Brown, Cameron, May, Johnson.
Leaders of the Opposition: William Hague, Ian Duncan Smith, Harriet Harman (briefly) Ed Milliband, Jeremy Corbyn, Keir Starmer.

Of that list only William Hague and Harriet Harman were what I call leaders with any substance to them. The rest are all incompetent, inadequate or deeply flawed and sometimes all three.

Thatcher, Kinnock, Smith, Attlee, Wilson, Eden, Churchill, McMillan stand head a and shouders above those we have had since 2000, even Callaghan, Major, and Douglas -Hume, in my opinion stand higher. None of them were perfect, and some were flawed, but they knew how to run the country and they were all respected overseas.

I would think we have now sunk to the leadership levels of Italy.

The current set of leaders and their immediate predecessors are to put it mildly, third rate.

lemongrove I was giving examples of populist leaders in the genre of Johnson- I didn’t state they were liars or better or worse than Johnson- I doubt if Nicola Sturgeon is in the same league somehow, the poster who claimed she was a liar should have given some examples or started a thread about her in particular.

M0nica

MaizieD PMS:Blair, Brown, Cameron, May, Johnson.
Leaders of the Opposition: William Hague, Ian Duncan Smith, Harriet Harman (briefly) Ed Milliband, Jeremy Corbyn, Keir Starmer.

Of that list only William Hague and Harriet Harman were what I call leaders with any substance to them. The rest are all incompetent, inadequate or deeply flawed and sometimes all three.

Thatcher, Kinnock, Smith, Attlee, Wilson, Eden, Churchill, McMillan stand head a and shouders above those we have had since 2000, even Callaghan, Major, and Douglas -Hume, in my opinion stand higher. None of them were perfect, and some were flawed, but they knew how to run the country and they were all respected overseas.

I would think we have now sunk to the leadership levels of Italy.

The current set of leaders and their immediate predecessors are to put it mildly, third rate.

Just your opinion, MOnica

Blair was a perfectly good PM, lots of good things achieved during his tenure.

Thatcher was appalling, destroyed our heavy industry, plunging people into poverty, fl*ming Falklands War, sold off council housing... A strong woman, yes. Good PM, No.

Apart from that, I think you're just succumbing to 'everything was better when I was young' syndrome...