Police and racism

Some of you may have read my account of life in Brixton during the 1981 riots. One of the main reasons for the riots was racism in the local police force and continual stop and search.

John Sentamu, former Archbishop of York, revealed back in 2010 that he had been stopped and searched 8 times. Even after telling the officers that he was a bishop the response was that he didn't look like one. Basically the officers didn't like a black man driving a posh car. The immediate assumption is that any black person driving an expensive car has to be a drug dealer.

lemongrove

Yes, the stop and search programme is about stopping knife crime, mainly black on black and usually gang related.

I agree it must be rotten to be stopped more often if you happen to be black.
No easy answers if we want to stop all the knife deaths.

But the stats clearly show that it's white people who are more likely to be convicted of carrying a knife that all other categories lumped together.

Assuming you want the police to stop people, who do you want them to stop - those more likely to be carrying or those less likely.

Racism is a part of life that is tackled for some races and not others. People think Black when they hear racism, this needs to stop.
It is even acceptable to society as well as the Home Office/ Patel, when you look at the discrimination against Travellers two of which are distinct races.

katie yes you are right, and there is one.

But b….d. if I can find it again!

Whitewavemark2

This does not appear to support your claim

Looking further into this graph non white knife convictions are very high in proportion to the non white population. Non White population is around 15% a graph weighted according to ethnic background would give a true picture of the occurrence

We don't know it hasn't worked do we GagaJo, it could be a lot worse if there hadn't been stop and search, and I am not implying that knife problem is a black problem.

IMO the conclusion should have been that there is racism within the police force not that the police are racist Whitewavemark.

Ethnic minorities shouldn't be tarred with the knife carrying drug taking/supplying brush any more than all serving police officers should be tarred with the racist brush.

The Government Race Commission in March 2021 stated that institutional racism doesn't exist but "overt and outright racism persists" but says that the UK should be an example to other white majority countries. A more measured conclusion IMO.

GrannyGravy13

My blonde haired blue eyed AC was stopped fairly often when he went from having long hair (student) to cropped hair.
I still say if it saves lives and prevents knife crime (however few) it should continue.

Of course, anecdote trumps data every time, doesn't it?

Nobody is saying that white people don't get stopped. Just that black people get stopped more often and disproportionately.

We have knife crime up here in the frozen north. We also have a miniscule black population. Our knifers are predominately white. How does that work?

The problem with ploughing on with s&s is that it doesn’t work. It is encouraging those racists in the police force in their bad ways, and it is storing up future trouble with those feeling aggrieved at being constantly picked on.

My blonde haired blue eyed AC was stopped fairly often when he went from having long hair (student) to cropped hair.
I still say if it saves lives and prevents knife crime (however few) it should continue.

Smileless2012

I agree with your posts @ 8.41 and 9.01 lemongrove and in addition to what you've said, the distinct possibility of being stopped and searched may also be a deterrent to carrying knives at all.

Well, IF as you and the other poster have implied, the knife problem is a black problem, AND the stop and search of black people has been going on for years, it clearly hasn't worked yet.

MAYBE they should stop, stop and search and find a solution that works.

smileless

Detailed research has been done that is why the Home Affairs committee came to the conclusion that the police are racist.

IMO there are so many factors that would need to be taken into account for a truly accurate picture. For example referring to your post Maizie where does he live? Does he live or is he generally stopped in an area with a high crime rate? Does that particular area have a higher % of ethnic minorities? Was he always alone or within a group? Was the general behaviour being displayed by the individual or group of a suspicious nature? Were the police following up a report? What's the outcome ie what % of ethnic minorities who are stopped and searched are found to be in possession of an illegal weapon and/or substance, in comparison to the % ethnic majority.

"There is racism in the police" yes unfortunately there is, there's racism in many areas of society but for me, far more detailed research needs to be done before it's assumed that the police only stop someone from an ethnic minority because they're not white, when there may well be other factors that arose suspicion.

GrannyGravy13

If 10 + stop and searches save 1 young life it’s worth it.

Not if you're the same black guy who has been stopped for the tenth time...

If 10 + stop and searches save 1 young life it’s worth it.

You can make all the political changes you like, but you can't change people's underlying thought processes.
Political changes may help, superficially, but nothing will bring equality until a whole generation has been educated against judging people based on their appearance.
The problem of gang culture / knife crime too needs to be solved, but again, it seems an impossibility, as gang members get the sense of belonging and companionship that is often missing in their family relationships.

Smileless2012

I agree with your posts @ 8.41 and 9.01 lemongrove and in addition to what you've said, the distinct possibility of being stopped and searched may also be a deterrent to carrying knives at all.

I think we may all agree with it in principle.

But the fact is that an ethnic minority is being stopped far more than the ethnic majority.

There is racism in the police

I agree with your posts @ 8.41 and 9.01 lemongrove and in addition to what you've said, the distinct possibility of being stopped and searched may also be a deterrent to carrying knives at all.

Yes Galaxy. Just a way to enforce racial dominance. Just like the killings of black men in the US by the police.

There are so many women who are raped or assaulted or killed by men. All men should be stopped on a regular basis. After all we want to stop violent crime.

Gaga they are based on seeing and hearing mothers on the tv news/radio and documentaries I have seen.
There will be other mothers who are angry about their sons being stopped and searched am sure.
There are so many funerals of young black men and teenagers stabbed to death that tbh stopping and searching, education in schools and parents warnings whilst not working completely, is all that can be done to mitigate things.

going = young

When I was a going teenager in London a group of us used to hang out down the road, just to be sociable. We got searched and moved on. It wasn’t a free country then and obviously nothing has changed. Another reason for leaving.

I suggest you talk to a few black mothers about stop and search lemongrove. Your opinions are not based in fact.

It may make no discernible difference to the arrest rate, but may make all the difference in the world if knives are taken off people so they they can’t stab anyone on that particular day.
Many black mothers in London are glad that their sons and friends are being stopped and knives taken off them, they are sick of attending young funerals and having so many lives both taken at an early age and others ruined by long prison sentences for a moment’s madness.

There is a fact checker on the BBC web site which states that stopping and searching makes no discernible difference whatsoever to the arrest rate.

So it appears that all stop and search is achieving is to reinforce the apparent and according to Home Committees findings that the police are racist.