So many dreams for our youngsters dashed.

Clearly someone with a degree in Russian from Durham is quite likely to get job offers BUT what was great about the ease of travel/work permits around europe was that many young people with lesser qualifications expanded their horizons and learnt a different language.

I do get fed up with the insularity on here . If someone says they’d love to go abroad on holiday again we get “what’s wrong with a holiday in Uk?”

Now we get “oh they can get jobs in UK….

My son did his year abroad at Venice University under the Erasmus programme eight years ago when studying Italian and Spanish at university. A fantastic opportunity for him living in a city that he would never be able to afford to do again. We certainly could not have afforded to send him there if it wasn’t for the Erasmus programme, it’s now only something the rich can do, certainly a narrowing of opportunities for the ordinary person.

In the 60s a friend and I planned to spend a few months travelling through Europe getting jobs as we went but in those days you needed a work permit before you could do any work, but no one got a work permit without already having a job. Stalemate. Hence dream dashed.
I was, and still am, disappointed with the ( so slim) vote to leave Europe, effectively closing down so many opportunities.

It’s still very early days really, in particular because of the disruption of Covid, and that happening just as we left the EU. There is indeed a whole world out there, and that of course, includes EU countries. In the immediate future I think job opportunities will be somewhat limited anywhere else in the world due to Covid. I think we’ll have to wait and see how it all settles down when we are living with Covid (a bit like we live with flu) and only then will we be able to see the Brexit effect with regard to jobs.

Maybe, just maybe, some of our young people recognise that a whole world exists outside the UK and they would like to be part of it

Maybe if so many inward looking, prejudiced people hadn't fallen for the 'let's get rid of the foreigners' claptrap that characterized Brexit, we wouldn't be in this mess and young people wouldn't be feeling the effects of it.
Leavers have a lot to answer for.
Before anyone jumps in to say that their reasons for voting Leave were considered in depth, for each person who says that, there were far many more whose reasons were totally flimsy. I read of one person who had voted to leave because she said we might as well be out because our songs were always rubbish and we hadn't won it for years.

The worst of it is that we haven't seen all the effects of choosing to fight with our largest customer yet. Imagine you were running a business and had a major customer who was close at hand. You constantly insult and belittle them; you expect to get out of previously agreed contracts; you expect the customer to make changes in your contract reversing the previous agreement with them once the contract is in process. And this is a customer who doesn't need you as much as you need them. How would you expect them to behave towards you?

Ellianne [Thu 05-Aug-21 09:21:38] you came onto a thread and made a political remark and then backed down from the politics and wanted special treatment. It won't happen in Europe and you can't expect it on these threads either.

Peasblossom

But if climate change is one of the worries they are facing, wouldn’t shrinking if the aircraft industry actually be a good thing?

Disappointing for the individual, but good for the planet?

Agree. I think the effects of climate change on people's lives is a bigger problem than working in the EU.
These times they are a changing. Poor kids have a lot of our mess to clean up.

GrannyGravy13

Ellianne

Sorry, as my comments aren't palatable I will move to a more positive place.
By the way, my goddaughter has just finished Russian at Durham uni and has several offers of jobs in Europe in the pipeline.
Hurdles there might well be, but they are not insurmountable.

I agree there are hurdles, I agree that they are not insurmountable.

We now have to view applying for a job in European Countries the same as USA, Canada, Australia, Asia etc.

Which we haven't had to for several decades. This is not a Good Thing. Leave voters should be ashamed of raising barriers, not defending them.

Particularly as there are still NO noticeable benefits as a result of Brexit.

Yes, totally. Agreed.

But it is not the point of this thread. And my post is not 'just about' pilots. And yes, to some extent your comment applies to all tourism and certainly the ski industry. Perhaps for another thread?

But if climate change is one of the worries they are facing, wouldn’t shrinking if the aircraft industry actually be a good thing?

Disappointing for the individual, but good for the planet?

Buckle up for a bumpy ride then.

and Politics threads^
I love a bit of rough and tumble, but preferably not in the air! Talking of pilots!!
Too much turbulence.

If they brought in restrictions for applying for jobs in other parts of the UK, - Yorkshire for instance - would you be OK with that?

Because that is how people in the EU view other parts of the EU; just somewhere else that they can apply for jobs, or go and live, or whatever. But not British people. We're the outlier here.

Ellianne, my comment followed after a niece who is training to be a pilot sent me the article fro Flight Global. They are already worried about their future due to the shrinking of the Airline industry. She is trilingual, with French and Spanish.

'' By David Kaminski-Morrow4 August 2021
Lauda Europe A320-c-Transport Malta

Frustrated UK cockpit representatives are urging the government to redress the licence-recognition imbalance with the European Union, as Ryanair’s Maltese carrier Lauda Europe’s recruitment for a London Stansted base lays down a requirement for European-licensed pilots.''

Ellianne

Sorry, as my comments aren't palatable I will move to a more positive place.
By the way, my goddaughter has just finished Russian at Durham uni and has several offers of jobs in Europe in the pipeline.
Hurdles there might well be, but they are not insurmountable.

I agree there are hurdles, I agree that they are not insurmountable.

We now have to view applying for a job in European Countries the same as USA, Canada, Australia, Asia etc.

MaizieD

^Hurdles there might well be, but they are not insurmountable.^

We know that the 'hurdles' aren't insurmountable. We're just angry that they are there at all after so many years of their complete absence.

I would never agree with “complete absence”.
Language learning at secondary school level has been woeful for too many years, long before and entirely unconnected with Brexit, putting many young people at a disadvantage vis-a-vis their European counterparts who nearly always have a second or third language, whether or not that is their chosen area of study.
We have many foreign companies in and around MK and company policy is to require two languages (their own plus one) for progression to the high levels. I taught many students of French, German, Dutch, Indian and Japanese parents who also spoke excellent English. Our narrow system of choices at Secondary level, invariably discriminates against those who may wish go on to study science or engineering as two languages at GCSE level or even one language at A level does not fit into the curriculum.

MerylStreep

A friend of my grandson has started his Pilot training.
I will pass on your words of wisdom kali2
I doubt his reply will be printable on GN.

So your grandson's friend, once qualified, will have no problem in getting a job in the EU? Without having to clear any more hurdles than they would have had to clear, say, 10 years ago?

Ellianne

Alegrias1

It'll all be fine Kali2, after all we speak English, what could possibly go wrong? We're British don't you know?

In that overused phrase, I despair

I despair too Alegrias. Have you ever worked as a pilot where English is actually the main language, or in tourism where Englush leads the way? Look at the start of Kali's thread and my response. It is nothing about nationality, but about language. Picking a fight isn't always necessary. You should know I don't do politics, much as that phrase upsets.

I am so sorry, but you are so wrong here. And that is the whole point, it is not about speaking English, but about 'equivalence' of qualifications, and about the need to have visas/permits. Loss of 'equivalence' for so many professions is entirely linked to Brexit and the UK becoming a 3rd country. Same for work permits and visas.

This will be made so much more difficult due to a shrinking air transport market, and airlines moving their base to EU to avoid difficulties with air travel post Brexit.

Ellianne

Sorry, as my comments aren't palatable I will move to a more positive place.
By the way, my goddaughter has just finished Russian at Durham uni and has several offers of jobs in Europe in the pipeline.
Hurdles there might well be, but they are not insurmountable.

Ellianne please don't stop posting. But in the rough and tumble of the News and Politics threads anybody who says something that is unsubstantiated, or doesn't really address the problem, is going to get a response that they might not like .

MerylStreep

A friend of my grandson has started his Pilot training.
I will pass on your words of wisdom kali2
I doubt his reply will be printable on GN.

A friend of my grandson has started his Pilot training.
I will pass on your words of wisdom kali2
I doubt his reply will be printable on GN.

Hurdles there might well be, but they are not insurmountable.

We know that the 'hurdles' aren't insurmountable. We're just angry that they are there at all after so many years of their complete absence.

Sorry, as my comments aren't palatable I will move to a more positive place.
By the way, my goddaughter has just finished Russian at Durham uni and has several offers of jobs in Europe in the pipeline.
Hurdles there might well be, but they are not insurmountable.

Antonia

It will be a problem for some young people, but there are many job opportunities in the UK. Maybe the EU countries aren't keen to employ British youngsters, after Brexit.
Climate change is a different story and will probably affect them all.

Maybe, just maybe, some of our young people recognise that a whole world exists outside the UK and they would like to be part of it.

Until the disastrous Brexit vote 27 European countries were easy for them to access, to work in, and to settle in if they felt so inclined. Taking that freedom from them is nothing but negative.

And before any Leavers step in, yes, I'm perfectly aware that all those things will still be 'possible' in the EU 27, but it won't be anywhere near as easy and their choices are restricted by some jobs, previously wide open to UK applicants, requiring EU passport holders only.

But you are already wrong Ellianne as the whole thread is about the jobs shrinking for our children/grandchildren in Europe.

Many young people with an adventurous spirit go off to work in Europe for a year or two or maybe do the summer season abroad.
Obviously the same opportunities (may) exist as they did before if they are wanting to work in the UK... but there's something liberating in forging a new you, growing in confidence, becoming an adult away from family, in a foreign place.