Animals don’t belong in the Olympics

LondonMzFitz [Mon 09-Aug-21 12:03:14]

I don't ride, never have and have nothing to do with horses. But I'm allowed an opinion, surely?

You are right. No one can stop you from having an opinion. But if it is an uneducated one - as you tell us it is - please don't expect anyone to think it is equal to facts or life experience.

Craicon

Fox hunting got rightly banned and it’s about time we stopped using horses in the Olympics too.

Or would you like to see cock fighting brought in as a demonstration Olympic sport?

In the Paris Olympics of 1900 they had poddle clipping and live pigeon shooting!!!!

It was clear from the start that no amount of discussion, reasoned or unreasonable argument was going to change people's minds.

We do all agree that animal cruelty is WRONG. We should be putting our efforts into changing laws and rules in a sensible way to make things better, not arguing.

So why don't we all just agree to leave it that?

Thank you. I’m a kind of all or nothing person myself, so I often find it difficult when people espouse a way of thinking and then make an exception for themselves.

I know I’m judgemental ? Myself ncluded.

Very true that perfection should not be the enemy of the good. I’ll try ?

That was for vegansrock. The posts moved on quickly

I agree with all you say Veganrock and I admire your compassion and empathy.

Peaseblossom I have not espoused a way of thinking other than we should try to do the least harm possible to others including animals and the natural world. If we can live without killing quite so many of them all to the good. But yes, this isn’t what this thread is about.

No, I didn’t mean to imply you had. Just people in general.
About all kinds of things.

I was a bit off piste. Just something I’ve been thinking about?

Somewhat off topic but I wish they would stop poisoning foxes and rabbits here. It is not only cruel but the poisons kill many other native species as well. I am also sick of trigger happy hunters killing deer ,dogs and cats whenever they see fit. They want to have a kangaroo cull at the local golf course because they were getting in the way. Disgusting.I’d get rid of the golfers if it was up to me !

Might I suggest you google Harold the horse freestyle to see how dressage should be done! It might cheer everyone up!

Vegansrock
Just no, the horses you have to trust are well cared for by professionals who have an animal affinity. Of course there’s a rogue element always is in all walks of life.
Please believe these people are athletes every bit as talented as skateboarders and swimmers, boxers and hockey players. They deserve the plaudits they have earned.

I am so lucky, i can sit at my window and watch 3 horses in a field across the road. i know nothing of their history.
One of them is very elegant and aloof, but now and again he races round and round and treats me to a kind of dancing show, kicking up his heels and standing on his hind legs.
Then he decides to do that funny little sideways step like they do in dressage, and then circle backwards ending up kind of 'posed' as though waiting for applause.
Then he'll kick up his heels and do a circuit of the field looking to happy and carefree that the others join in.
i'm sure he loves it.

Extract from an article following the 2016 Olympics 'Paul McGreevy, professor of animal behaviour and animal welfare science at the University of Sydney along with a team of researchers conducted a study to ascertain whether or not the use of restrictive and commonplace riding equipment was harming our horses. Even with the 2 finger gap between the crank noseband and the nose, the horses in the study showed signs of stress; and this is WITHOUT rein tension. They measured stress levels using eye temperature and heart rate, and in all cases as the tightness of the nosebands increased, so did the heart rates and temperatures, which are recognised signals of pain and stress. In high level training and competition like the Olympics, the use of the crank noseband is commonplace and is often tightened beyond the advised 2 finger gap. '
Seems obvious that a stressed horse is not happy to me. Reminds me that some people think that dolphins in a tank are smiling.

Vagansrockm the clue isin the name, obviously talking from a position of ignorance. As could be seen from the oentathalon beating up a horse never works, I agree that horse riding in this event should be changed for another sport. On the other hand the British guy that ride the same horse when it was his turn had no problems. My horse is always happy to see me and cant get up the ramp of the lorry quickly enough to goto a competition. Horses can only lie down for short periods as it puts too much pressure on their internal organs. Just imported a horse from Ireland 24 hours of travel and you would have thought he had just had a trip down the road. Please don't rant about things you clearly have little knowledge, which is a dangerous thing according to the saying.

vegansrock

In my experience, horses enjoy challenges. I knew a woman who kept a field full of horses that were hardly ever ridden. If you went to pick a horse to ride, they would all come up trying to get picked.

I am 100% in favour of animal welfare, but one of my problems with veganism is the fact that if we don't ever use large animals, we are not going to be keeping them to run free over the earth. Cows and horses need a lot of land and a lot of attention. If we stop eating cows and drinking their milk, we would have to get rid of them altogether.

Not only was the horse punched , the rider gave it a good strong whipping too if you watch the video carefully ,, The rider was distressed, the horse was totally distressed.. The rider should have dismounted and checked the horse , instead of whipping and digging in the spurs ! Talked to it stroked it and try to calm it down ! May be the saddle was pinching ? check his shoes .. something was wrong anyone could see that !

One of the horse riders said that the horses basically sleep during the flight home and it doesn't stress them at all.
"Pumpkin" was flown to Liege, given some time in a field then transported back to the UK.

What happens to the horses after their working life? are they like greyhounds that are dumped with ears cut? there was a recent news item about ex racing horses being sent to the UK from Ireland to the slaugherhouses . . Maybe now is the time to leave animals out of entertainment- inc the use of horses for the olympics?

If we stop eating cows and drinking their milk, we would have to get rid of them altogether.

Er.... yes...? And?

I'm keeping count, that's the third time in 24 hours somebody had said that, or something like it....

I might adopt a sheep.
It would keep the lawns down and I would be able to knit woolly jumpers for all the family.

He will not be called Shaun, perhaps Schubert?
Or Siobhan?

If any of you have read the press piece that Charlotte du Jardin released you will have read that she split up with her long term partner just before the Olympics and she said that she did not want to transfer her emotions to the horse so had to make the horse feel confident and calm, there is a lot more to it than smart tricks and if the horse doesn't feel like it or misjudges something or the rider hasn't given the correct instruction the horse will refuse. Sport brings out the best and worst in some people, e.g. the coach who should now be investigated.

coyoacan Well there certainly wouldn’t be as many of them if they weren’t eaten , but don’t try to sound like you are doing them a favour by eating them.
lemontart Horses don’t sleep in transportation, they doze and rest but this is not a deep sleep , they can’t lock their back legs as they have to keep shifting their weight around due to the movement. That’s why they break long journeys for the valuable horses. Most horses don’t like travelling too long in horse boxes - that’s not my opinion it’s that of a lecturer in equine science. But no doubt she’d get slagged off too.

If we dispensed with all animal husbandry, we would have to use only chemical fertilisers to grow crops. We would also lose many protected landscapes which are not suitable for growing crops. Our chalk downlands have been grazed by sheep and cattle for thousands of years. These cropped downlands have evolved with habitats and species that would become extinct, if the grass was not grazed.

Im many areas of landscape owned by organisation like the National Trust, even though they are left uncultivated they use both sheep and cows to graze the land to protect the habitats of the plants and insects that live there. left ungrazed the land would be over grown by weeds and scrub and these species, many of them rare, would become extinct.

There is an alternative. For the last several years I have bought only Pasture for Life beef and lamb. These are animals that are reared on natural pasture that is not suitable for arable crops. The land is not trted with pesticides of any kind, nor is it fertilised by anything other than the droppings of the cattle grazing it. The cattle grazed there receive no extra feed, except hay grown on the same farm or bought from surrounding farms. No soy, no maize, no imported feed, limited vetinary treatment and no growth promoters. Cattle reared and fed as they have been since they were first domesticated. They produce far less methane than industrialised cattle farming. Much of the methane is caused by cows being fed soy, maize and other crops their digestion is not suited to digesting.

This Pasture for Life meat, is more expensive, and not so melt-in-the mouth as industrial beef. As a result I add lots of beans, lentils and vegetables to my casseroles and stews and oor meat consumption us now well below the national average. All the dishes are as meaty tasting as those with larger portions of meat. That is because the meat is the best you can get and rich in flavour. The total effect these animals have on the climate is minimal, when taking into account whole farm costs, Less farm equipment is required, less diesel, no bought in feed, lower vetinarary bills and animals left out, often all year to graze and live as cows are meant to do.

I am appalled that someone so consciously Vegan can look at the wholesale slaughter os so many animals, whose carcasses while, presumable have to be burnt, yet opposes them entering the food chain.

This is the way forward. animals grazing naturally on

kjmpde

What happens to the horses after their working life? are they like greyhounds that are dumped with ears cut? there was a recent news item about ex racing horses being sent to the UK from Ireland to the slaugherhouses . . Maybe now is the time to leave animals out of entertainment- inc the use of horses for the olympics?

Most retired horses are turned out to spend their old age in fields with some company and are lovingly, even slavishly cared for by their owners until the moment comes when they are to sick to continue to live. They are then PTS as calmly and peacefully as possible.

Racehorses are a different matter. Far too many are bred every year because it's an industry with high returns if you get the breeding just right. There really isn't much money to be earned in any of the other disciplines. So surplus or slow thoroughbreds are either sent for slaughter or are bought or 'rescued' by people who may, or may not, have the knowledge and expertise to train it for another discipline, or just enjoy riding out on it. Sadly, they might fall into the hands of someone who has no experience and who frightens and spoils the horse (and probably scares themselves witless in the process). I have no time for the horseracing industry.

I do wish people would rid themselves of the idea that horses are being used for entertainment. This really only applies to horseracing, and then it's the money to be made from betting that is a large part of its attraction.

In the other disciplines people compete because they are competitive. Mainly to few, or no spectators at all..

vegansrock as you think that humans violate animals when they use them, how do you feel about Guide Dogs for the blind, Hearing Dogs for the dead and Assistance Dogs for those who have disabilities?

(Off topic I know, but they are animals used and trained by humans for our gain )