Animals don’t belong in the Olympics

I wouldn’t dream of arguing with you about the suitability or treatment of animals in sport.

But if you think that fox hunting can be excused as “Darwinism”, then you’re deluded. All credibility gone.

I await the diatribe, which I’m sure will be full of well argued and indisputable facts.

Coming in late on this thread, and as a horse lover since childhood I wanted to have my say.

I get really, really angry about this attitude to horses in the Olympics or whatever, there's been a similar thread on Facebook.

Ever heard of the saying 'You can take a horse to water but you can't make it drink it'? Well that applies to jumping, dressage etc. if a horse doesn't want to it won't. As illustrated by the German horse, it didn't like the unfamiliar riders and so wasn't going to perform for them. The response of the coach was utterly disgraceful and she should be banned.

Have you never seen horses that have dumped their riders but continued around the racetrack, showjumping ring or cross country course? This is because they enjoy doing it. My own hated showjumping, loved cross country and hunting and was bored stiff with dressage. Horses for courses.

DD and I were at Hickstead one year when a young and up and coming girl was doing really well with her grey. In front of us the horses bridle fell to bits and the bit fell out of its mouth. They completed the course with the rider using just her legs and voice. Don't tell me that horse wouldn't have quitted given the chance! He was loving it.

I agree with so many of the above posts regarding the domestication of equines. And yes they do now need human intervention for both the gene pool and their well being, even the native ponies. For example, my pony was a New Forest breed, back in the 60s I was able to leave him out in the field all winter, even at night. For many years it has not been possible to leave this breed out at night. On balance horses do extremely well on all counts with their human counterparts.

And if someone comes back at me about foxhunting then I will give them a diatribe on the tragic disease-ridden, starving urban foxes. It's called a cull. Darwinism.

I don't usually point out spelling mistakes in my username, because they happen all the time. Its not a big deal. But when thanks get thrown back in your face, all bets are off.

Auto correct.

Honest to God. Some will see negativity in everything. I was being sincere.

But believe what you like.

And its Alegrias. Patronising enough?

Oh stop being so patronising Algeria’s. Honestly if you were stranded on a desert island you’d have to resort to arguing with yourself.

The things you learn on GN! Thanks MayBee70!

But they weren’t, imo totally domesticated in that they had retained the characteristics of a feral sheep therefore they didn’t have to physically change to exist in a wild state.

I will admit then that I am confused.

The sheep are called feral sheep, they live on Hirta without human intervention, but they are not feral?

And like I said above, I'm not advocating returning domesticated animals to the wild, although its clearly worked for Soay sheep....

But the sheep aren’t reverting back to their feral state. It’s the state from which the were then domesticated in such a way that they can’t look after themselves without human intervention. It would take quite a while for domestic horses to do that. The heavy breeds would soon die out. In fact most of them are endangered already. Only Welsh Mountain or Connemaras etc would fare well. Even then there have been bad winters when the Welsh ponies perished.

MayBee70

I don’t think horses would exist at all if they hadn’t allied themselves with us hundreds of years ago. And I can’t imagine a world without horses. The only domestic animals I can think of that could revert back to being feral quite easily are cats.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Soay_sheep

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feral_pig

I don’t think horses would exist at all if they hadn’t allied themselves with us hundreds of years ago. And I can’t imagine a world without horses. The only domestic animals I can think of that could revert back to being feral quite easily are cats.

It's a point of view I agree with.

It's a point of view Alegrais.

Meaning? Its a discussion forum, of course its a point of view

Alegrias1

I'll get my defence in first...I know nothing about horses and I have no strong feelings either way about them being in the Olympics or anything else.

But I feel I have to make a comment about horses, or any animal, being happier in captivity than in their natural environment. I'm afraid those are just the stories we tell ourselves to make us feel better about depriving an animal of a natural life. We breed them to behave the way we want them to behave, whether they are horses, dogs, cats, sheep or any other domesticated animal that has been bred away from its natural state.

It's a point of view Alegrais.

Thanks foxie48

I'm not advocating returning domesticated animals to the wild, I realise that wouldn't work. But in a couple of threads in the last few days I've seen the excuse that animals wouldn't have a nice life if it wasn't for us. I don't agree with that. There are plenty of species that do just fine without us domesticating them.

Alegrias1

I'll get my defence in first...I know nothing about horses and I have no strong feelings either way about them being in the Olympics or anything else.

But I feel I have to make a comment about horses, or any animal, being happier in captivity than in their natural environment. I'm afraid those are just the stories we tell ourselves to make us feel better about depriving an animal of a natural life. We breed them to behave the way we want them to behave, whether they are horses, dogs, cats, sheep or any other domesticated animal that has been bred away from its natural state.

You make a valid point about domestication, we do breed them selectively to be what we want them to be so they are no longer "wild" but I think "happiness" is a human concept. Horses in the wild (not that many exist now) live a life of survival and as prey animals this means they are constantly on alert and tbh if they sustain an injury they don't live long and most likely die in pain. Whether this is better for them or not, I don't know as it's impossible to ask them. The majority of domestic horses would not cope in the wild, it's a very rough existence. You only have mares and stallions in the wild, young stallions have to fight to gain mares and are frequently injured. Even the native breeds living in this country eg exmoors and dartmoors etc need the intervention of humans to keep the gene pool healthy.

I may be wrong (and there will be no shortage to put me right) but did the moves of dressage and especially those seen at the Spanish Ridibg School not originate in training horses for the battlefield - how to turn on a sixpence or get up on their hind legs to avoid being slashed with a sabre etc?
Not "dancing" for humans' entertainment but an ancient training regime which (again correct me if I am wrong) many horses bred to it thrive on? As intelligent animals they, like sheepdogs, agility dogs, working retrievers, gundogs etc thrive on mental stimulus.
OK I know we dont have horses on battlefields and many will raise an objection to working gundogs- but that is another argument altogether.

I'll get my defence in first...I know nothing about horses and I have no strong feelings either way about them being in the Olympics or anything else.

But I feel I have to make a comment about horses, or any animal, being happier in captivity than in their natural environment. I'm afraid those are just the stories we tell ourselves to make us feel better about depriving an animal of a natural life. We breed them to behave the way we want them to behave, whether they are horses, dogs, cats, sheep or any other domesticated animal that has been bred away from its natural state.

vegansrock

Those who own horses aren’t remotely biased are they?

And you're not? Their bias if based on knowledge. What, if anything other than "feelings", is your desire to tell others how to live their lives based on?

GrannyGravy13

There are so many experts on this thread who have zero experience or practical knowledge of the equine world, but obviously they know far more than those who ride/own their own horses…

Totally agree GrannyGravy. It wouldn't be so bad if they didn't think they should change others lives on the basis of their lack of knowledge.

I disagree that they’re happier in a natural environment if that means just standing in a field all day munching grass (and possibly getting colic or laminitis). Their intelligence and sensitivity means that they need the sort of mental stimulation they would get in the wild just to stay alive.

vegansrock

Those who own horses aren’t remotely biased are they?

Of course I am biased (as are you) but that doesn't prevent me from being knowledgeable or unwilling to call out cruelty. However, if you believe that it is cruel to ride horses and I don't, we are not going to find a point of agreement.

Good try

There are a multitude of knowledgeable posts on this thread, which you continue to ignore/dismiss due to your bias.

Those who own horses aren’t remotely biased are they?