To want to weep fir the girls in afghanistaan

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polity politely

But you still think Biden was declared or declared himself "leader of the free world" - which was what I did see. I'm afraid I don't "obsessively" ensure I read all of any one persons posts.

Since when has posting something once followed by an apology when my error had been polity highlighted been obsessive? Is it any wonder I felt that you had decided your opinions are superior to facts.

Anything else?

Pippa Z if you read any of my posts I have mentioned the last 4 Presidents.

I don't know why I come across as being angry apart from with Biden. You are the one who has accused a poster of being a Trump supporter quite obsessively.
I don't have narrow views actually and I don't jump on people I disagree with.
I can't remember that much from my degree because quite honestly it was a long time ago and not that good. History is such a vast subject one can't be an expert on everything and your opinions change with age.

Quick on the draw me ?

You beat me to it tickingbird

If GN removes postings if they contain a personal attack surely your post calling Whatdayisit will be first to go

Pippaz Whoa!! Personal attack?? Where has Maudi made any personal attack? Seems to me that you believe you’re the only one on here in possession of the facts and therefore entitled to dictate to anyone disputing your ‘facts’.

I suggest your draw GNHQ’s attention to Maudi’s post and see if they agree with your position on personal attacks! Strange if they do as you said the exact same thing to Whatdayisit in your previous post.

I'm not angry, just factual. I do get that some don't like that and have to have their opinion considered as equal to fact - but it isn't.

So Maudi, did you just chose to post just to make a personal attack (as that is all you have done) or have you something to say?

GNHQ rules ... we will remove postings that ... contain personal attacks, etc. It might be worth you reading them.

I think the only person on here who seems angry PippaZ is you.

February 19th 2021 Biden was declared or declared himself leader of the free world. Whatdayisit [Sun 22-Aug-21 15:43:16]

Neither of those is true. There is truth and the things people make up to try and prove a point. "Leader of the free world" is just a term that was used during the fight against Communism. No one has been voted into that position; they would need to be for any such "declaration" to be made. And Biden has certainly never declared himself as such. It was used to describe the power of the United states but no actual such position exists.

The point about history is nothing to do with differences of opinion. If you have retained anything you learned while doing your degree you will know that no event hangs on one person's actions.

You seem angry that your narrow views are not agreed with but there is very little I can do about that.

February 19th 2021 Biden was declared or declared himself leader of the free world.
I don't need a lecture on what history is from you Pippa Z just because your opinion is different to mine. Somewhere in my life backpack I have a basic degree in history. But, in my opinion, which is as valid as yours the buck here stops with Biden.
And I hear Blair has raised his self-righteous head and called Biden imbecillic for his actions. Is he deflecting blame or is he absolutely spot on.

So, other than Trump and Biden, who in the US would you want to be held to account Zoejory? It's a bit difficult to see which ex American politician you are aiming at although there is more historical involvement than just those two.

In this country, for what is happening at the moment there is our government, which has been in power for ten years, and our PM but the historical references are already being talked about.

So, perhaps you could enlighten us rather than putting what lemongrove disparagingly calls goady comments.

I wonder what the comments would have been had Trump still been in power now, with all this chaos.

I"m sure we all know.

I'm not a Trump supporter but I'm pretty sure that the buck would have stopped with him.

There is this strange thing we call history Whatdayisit. This disaster has a history that did not begin with him. I haven't seen anyone on GN say he has done well; he will have to answer for his part. However, some are trying to re-write history so that he bears all the blame.

He is not the "leader of the free world" in any democratic way. As I have said previously, the USA is not Daddy Bear. We have to look to our politicians to be accountable for the politics with which we are involved.

Biden is the President of the USA, not the UK. I do not doubt that all those involved will be required a person to explain and accept responsibility. That is everyone involved, not the coverup of the acts of some posters chosen one.

I am not making excuses for Johnson. He should have sacked Raab days ago.
Biden is the so-called leader of the free world so the buck stops with him.

As some have now turned another thread into a parrallel to this I will copy and paste my last post on that one.

We write history about what comes before, what happens and what comes after. The analysis of this catastrophe will include the action of peripheral actors.

Some on Gransnet seem to want to paint out some individuals such as Johnson and Trump. They have had or do have political power and/or authority. They have engaged in activities that can have a significant influence on decisions. Their policies, media coverage, and outcomes associated with Afghanistan have contributed to the current chaos. They are part of the story.

We need to be honest about what has happened. All around the world citizens are recognising the changes moving them from democracy to totalitarianism. Voters need to equip themselves with a truthful understanding. With such an extreme form of capitalism as our country has, a totalitarian government - more than we already have under this Tory Goverment - is just as likely as it is in a communist one is elsewhere, or one ruled by religious totalitarianism.

I think the history of the mess in Afghanistan goes back even further than Trump . It’s a clear example of interference for mineral wealth with oil and now lithium being so valuable. I’m fed up of people suggesting that women and children should be airlifted out how is that any kind of answer ? Isn’t the population 40M ?

Perhaps because I have just logged on to GN and seen it.
Sorry Aleg but goady comments won’t work.

Slow off the mark there Lemongrove

PippaZ

Lincslass

Trump is not the President though, Biden is, and he had the power to overturn or at least stick with the ‘deal’. No I couldn’t stand even looking at Trump. All down to Biden, and the way he walked off after his speech, not answering questions, wonder why that was?

Okay, so you are a Trump supporter. God know why you want to support the leader of an attempted coup in a democracy, but you do. However, this takes away any sense of truth from your posts. Haven't you realised that.

I cannot do better than to quote this which was on another thread:

Trump released this evil on us; more importantly, he released it on the people of Afghanistan. What was in his addled brain when he did it I've no idea. Biden has handled it appallingly, but what a poisoned chalice he was given...

Weak arguments like the one LincsLass posted only cut the mustard with those who want to believe that this man, who would have inflicted a coup on his country if he could, is something akin to the second coming.

Logic and truth are worth a lot and support democracy. Trump and his cohorts want to destroy it.

Nonsense.
Didn’t you actually read the post by Lincslass saying ‘I couldn’t even stand looking at Trump’ ....

Alegrias This isn’t about ‘Trump excusing’. It’s far, far more than making snappy retorts on a public forum. I see that the wise, old sage Blair has finally graced us with his words of wisdom too - castigating Biden. No mention of his own part in all of this.

Ultimately, this has been, and will be, a disaster and, as per usual, the poor, ordinary population will suffer unimaginably.

To bring this down to the level of the playground with silly accusations of Trump supporting and in Pippaz’s case actually telling another poster that she’s a Trump supporter and therefore her posts lack truth is so arrogant and dismissive.

No wonder Labour aren’t and won’t be in power for the foreseeable future if their supporters on here are indicative of their attitude to those with a different viewpoint.

This is a statue dedicated to the arrival of Jewish children from the horror of German fascism.

Let’s hope that we can with enormous pride do the same for Afghanistan children arriving from the horror of the Taliban fascism.

Alegrias1

I don't think Lincslass is a Trump supporter.

I apologise if she isn't. However, there is no way forward if all you can do is blame one man. The situation is so much more complex than that. How about the Taliban? Are they not the ones to blame?

Biden has not done well, nor has Johnson and our government. The US, under Trump, and the Taliban signed the agreement. If we are to learn anything, we do need to look at that too. Lancslass did seem to be attempting to whitewash Trump but, of course, I should not make assumptions. This is a complex situation. We will not learn from simplistic comments.

President Biden will have blood on his hands, the situation in Afghanistan is his mistake and his responsibility.

He has been in US Government for over forty years whether in opposition or the administration of the day, he should have know better, he should have listened to his advisors.

President Trumps agreement was in hindsight not fit for purpose.

Afghanistan will become a training ground for Jihadi / Daesh freedom fighters/terrorists The whole of the western world could be living under high alert for the foreseeable future.

The women and girls of Afghanistan will be house slaves, or worse.