The Rage of the Incels

BlueBelle

I don’t think the police did any assessment from what I have heard on the radio oldwoman although obviously that ll come out and “lessons will be learnt” blah blah blah

I don’t know why anyone except for work or in contained conditions (clubs) needs or should own a gun We have some of the strictest rules yet this happens and no one can bring those poor innocent people back the rules need to be stricter still

What have you heard on the radio, BlueBelle and who said it? I’m genuinely interested as I don’t know who would have access to this information.

The process of granting a firearms licence involves more than one independent referee and reports from the applicant’s GP as well as police background checks. Has someone involved with the case claimed that none of these things happened?

Are the police entitled to be informed of a persons mental health?

To sum up, he was a very disturbed man who should never have been allowed to have a gun.

It's my fault for the way I wrote the OP. I wanted to know was more about "incels" rather than about this particular event. We cannot know what exactly drove this man to do what he did at this point.

I asked, "Is this group a terrorist risk?" My conclusion so far is that it isn't. However, I do feel those in power need to look into what is firing up some people, dissatisfied with their lot for various reasons, to group together and raise the temperature to focussed anger.

I don’t think the police did any assessment from what I have heard on the radio oldwoman although obviously that ll come out and “lessons will be learnt” blah blah blah

I don’t know why anyone except for work or in contained conditions (clubs) needs or should own a gun We have some of the strictest rules yet this happens and no one can bring those poor innocent people back the rules need to be stricter still

Growstuff
The teacher who taught him at a ‘special school’ ( the teachers description) said that he did have a diagnosis of autism.
He said he had a care package that should have stayed in place until he was 25.
The teacher just can’t understand how he got a gun license.

Having only gleaned information on this from newspaper reports it is easy to jump to conclusions. Most news media are referring to him as an "incel" yet he included men and a child amongst his victims.

It would appear he had an unhappy relationship with his mother - his first victim - and after killing her decided he was going to kill himself and wanted to take others he considered "lucky" enough to have family with him.

Some are blaming the police for returning his gun to him but I would have thought he would have undergone an examination by a mental health professional before this was done. Who was it who decided that an "anger management course" was sufficient after the first assault?

I am very wary of monitoring of speech growstuff, as who do you want to do the monitoring. Perhaps it could be government monitored because obviously the PM has the welfare of women at heart. Oh maybe not.

Galaxy

In my experience the monitoring of speech is a disaster for women and minorities because of those who tend to be making decisions. If it has to be monitored it would need to be independent body.

But who? National or international bodies?

It seems as though Twitter has taken down Alan Freestone's most offensive misogynistic posts. In case of doubt, he blamed women (and teachers) for what happened in Plymouth.

In my experience the monitoring of speech is a disaster for women and minorities because of those who tend to be making decisions. If it has to be monitored it would need to be independent body.

Galaxy

Not by misogynists. Certainly Twitter over the last few years has allowed threats towards women pass with impunity whilst blocking women left right and centre. It's like asking an arsonist to put out a fire.

So who should monitor it?

Not by misogynists. Certainly Twitter over the last few years has allowed threats towards women pass with impunity whilst blocking women left right and centre. It's like asking an arsonist to put out a fire.

Galaxy

I dont want Facebook deciding what misogyny is. Facebook was established originally to rate the attractiveness of female students. Those running media platforms in my view are not fit to judge misogyny due to their own misogyny.

I disagree. I don't see how Facebook or Twitter could fail to recognise the toxic misogyny of some of the posts I've read over the last couple of days. The trouble is, of course, that these people will just migrate to other less mainstream platforms.

How do you think online misogyny should be monitored Galaxy?

I dont want Facebook deciding what misogyny is. Facebook was established originally to rate the attractiveness of female students. Those running media platforms in my view are not fit to judge misogyny due to their own misogyny.

Blinko

I've heard (and I hope it's right) that misogyny may be classified as a hate crime. Not before time, either. If so, I hope it will move it up the agenda for the police, media platforms and other agencies to take action as soon as someone is identified as hating women.

I hope people campaigning against misogyny on this scale don't get dismissed as being "woke".

MaizieD

Lucca

What ???
Anti man rhetoric from teachers ?

Who is this person ?

Have a look at his timeline.

Looks to be an anti-vaxx, anti-mask, anti lockdown sort of guy. And a homeopath...

twitter.com/AlanFreestone/with_replies

I looked at it too. It's horrendous. He's even complaining about being victimised for being reported.

Is there any evidence that this man was autistic? All I can find are a couple of references he made himself, when referring to his inability to form relationships.

nanna8 I agree that it looks as though he didn't get help for mental health issues, but I don't think it has anything to do with human rights. Mental health services in the UK are woefully underfunded. You're right that little is done unless there's some kind of incident.

What is needed is a lot more help for mental health. This person would have shown signs of instability before he did what he did but it is the old,old story. Nothing gets done until something actually happens. Human rights is the usual excuse, and excuse it is. I call it neglect. Someone would have know. He was sliding down a slippery slope but no one listens. I have personal experience of this ‘deafness’ in my own family. Nothing violent, thank God, but just calls for help that are ignored until it is too late.

I agree with Shelbel. Some people don't even see autism as a mental health disorder, but a different wiring of the brain. I've had some limited experience working with autistic children and the problem seems to be that difficulties forming relationships and misunderstandings can exacerbate personality disorders. People with autism are perfectly able to understand right from wrong.

This was in reply to PippaZ

I am not blaming autistic people for anything. I have family and friends who are autistic, but, sometimes a narrow group of crimes may be associated with a particular background or mental problems.

We all know that because many jihadist terrorists aare Muslim, but few people think that because many if not most jihadists are muslim, every muslim is or supports these extreme causes. They don't the majority abhor them.

It is the same with a specific fairly rare crime and autism. because those involved in acertain type of crime have been autistic it does not follow that anyone who is autistic is liable to commit that crime.

More pertinently, because the person who committed the atrocity in Plymouth had a mental health problems and research has shown that many people committing this type of crime have also had mental health problems, it does not follow that all mentally ill people are potential massacre perpetrators.

I agree, but I think it's 1)mindset/disordered
2)internet connection with other of the same mindset
3) finally, the availability of a gun.

I have an autistic GC, they know right from wrong, please do not use crime as another stick to beat them with!!!!!!!

Shelbel

Yes GagaJo, I read that novel when it came out. I didn't think the film had the same power though.

I'm not sure I've seen the film.

I started reading the book in a bookshop once but foolishly didn't buy it. I then spent weeks trying to find it again. It's chilling, isn't it? I've read it a few times.

I have no knowledge about the link between incels and autism. It seems dangerous to make that link, because I think it could do two things. 1) Give those who commit these atrocities an excuse and 2) Unfairly criminalise some of those with AS traits.