Do you sometimes get really frustrated when things seem to have such an obvious solution?

Changes to IR35 are proving a problem for lots of 'other' self employed professionals too.

It's like houses!
All those old, unused houses!
Why not add incentives to people that are unemployed, put them with tradesmen who know what they're doing and teach them how to do up old houses to make them rentable again, instead of blimmin new houses that are popping up everywhere, with no cupboard space, tiny rooms and thin walls!!
They used to give incentives to people on the dole, to learn trades.

Urmstongran

The change of tax code is the main reason according to a friend in the business. Not Brexit. Although some want to use that handy peg.

I don't think you've bothered to read the thread, Ug. A page or so ago I posted the letter from the RHA to the government. It lists their analysis of the causes. It includes Brexit. No doubt gathered from a few more sources than just your friend in the business.

The change in the tax code only applies to agency drivers, who count as self employed. My DP was a logistics manager for 40+ years in companies of various sizes. They only employed agency drivers if temporarily short staffed. Have employment practices altered radically since he retired?

‘Other countries’ might not have just altered their tax code for HGV drivers though have they? So it’s difficult to extrapolate!

Urmstongran

The change of tax code is the main reason according to a friend in the business. Not Brexit. Although some want to use that handy peg.

There are many reasons. Brexit is one of them, that other countries don't have to deal with on top of all the others.

There are rules and laws which limit the hours a driver can undertake and vehicles are fitted with tachographs to ensure these are adhered to.

The rules are Byzantine and also cover working time, which isn't the same as driving time. If you are a long distance driver you can be forced into rest breaks far from home. Trying to track the hours is a skill in itself. The rules are a good thing, but they can cause unintended consequences.

driverhours.co.uk/drivers-hours-hgv/

Many companies have monitoring systems on top of the tachos that track exactly where you are at any given moment, some even have in-cab cameras to track your movements, even your eye movements. It all adds to the complexity and the stress.

It is not that easy, you can train people to have a HGV licence but if they have no previous experience, companies would be reluctant to employ them, as the insurance would be very high.

The change of tax code is the main reason according to a friend in the business. Not Brexit. Although some want to use that handy peg.

Employers pay low rates because the supermarkets are constantly putting pressure on all its suppliers to cut costs to keep food cheap,cheap, cheap. and those rates then roll across the whole transport industry. The rates Hermes pays its delivery staff are abysmally low and they ahve to use their own cars.

While there are enough people to take these jobs in order to have employment, they were stuck, but now there is a shortage, the boot is on the other foot, supermarkets caught between higher wage rates or no deliveries are paying up and I think the time is right for a charter of decent conditions for drivers, including not just working hours, but days at home, they should only work five days a week, the rest days should be at home, but if this is not possible they should get home leave in lieu when they get back.

The government response to the shortage was to increase permitted driving hours, but what else would you expect?

Very long hours are what break people - look at the burn-out in the health service. No-one wants to admit it but firms expect their employees to 'live the job' which causes a lot of problems.

This shouldn't be happening, though. There are rules and laws which limit the hours a driver can undertake and vehicles are fitted with tachographs to ensure these are adhered to.

I hope that pay and conditions will improve and I understand at least one supermarket has done this already.

It was interesting to watch Undercover Big Boss recently when the 'Big Bosses' were faced with the reality of working conditions of their staff, including the drivers.

We were parked up in a lorry park in Hungary. Next to us was a driver from Bulgaria. Having lived there for 5 years we got talking.
He hadn’t been home for 7 months because he couldn’t afford to. ?

From 2018. Germany weren’t much better off than us.

www.bifa.org/news/articles/2018/dec/truck-driver-shortage-crisis-now-spreading-across-the-whole-of-europe

Rail freight is OK, up to a point, buti t is being assumed that the railway network goes near the places that need the goods and that there is sufficient capacity on the network to run all the extra trains.

Many of the lorries on the roads are taking bulk loads long distances. We are hearing a lot of supermarket shortages, but if you want to have home grown vegetables on the shelves then you need to be able to pack vast quantities into very large lorries that can get from Lincolnshire to the supermarket warehouses and that they in turn can pack vast quantities of food of all kinds into a lorry to deliver to one store.

Imagine the inefficiencies that would arise if you used 10-20 white vans instead of one lorry. To begin with, instead of 100 lorries on the roads you would have as many as 2000 white vans tootling up and down, or rather the road system would be in total gridlock, not to mention the environemental cost in emissions.

Do not kid yourself that electric vans are any better. Most of the electricity they consume will come from gas-fired power stations and the extra environmental cost of making electric vehicles rather than conventional engines is the equivalent of driving a petrol fuelled vehicle 100,000 miles. Mainly due to manufacturing the batteries that use an array of rare and highly polluting chemicals and metals, many coming from area of the world where children work down mines, often without protection or decent pay.

Great post lovebeigecardigans1955, and very illuminating. Thank you.

I am reminded of the saying For each and every problem there is a simple solution. It is almost always wrong.

I am always frustrated and amazed that people bowl in with 'obvious solutions' about something so complicated, and often in an area requiring training, specific knowledge and years of experience, and they imagine that their solution is so wonderful that they can't imagine why someone doesn't just set about putting it into action. Perhaps the reason is that some are genuinely wiser and humble!!

I am reminded of the saying For each and every problem there is a simple solution. It is almost always wrong.^

Ha Ha! Like running a referendum on the membership of a complex and poorly understood institution just to stop votes leaching from your party ???

My late husband was an HGV driver. When he learned many years ago he could take his HVG1 test and then drive 'anything anywhere in the world except a military vehicle or a bus' BUT then the rules were changed. Drivers then had to go through the stages 3,2,1 which it took longer and cost an awful lot more which put people off.

The hours are long and arduous but still legal. Every fortnight he had to take a certain amount of hours as 'rest' but he still felt tired 'like a zombie' much of the time. The job is anti-social and lonely. It depends on which firm you deliver for whether you also have to unload or have a warehouse person do that for you.

Because of the bad traffic they battle to get there on time. Even if they are five minutes a late an uncooperative warehouseman might make them go to the back of queue. It's not unknown for a lorry driver to get to his destination and burst into tears - but don't say I told you that. They were once 'kings of the road' but that is long gone. I wish my DH had done something easier for a living as I'm sure the stress contributed to the illness which killed him.

I wouldn't advise anyone to do it. Sorry to put a damper on this. Very long hours are what break people - look at the burn-out in the health service. No-one wants to admit it but firms expect their employees to 'live the job' which causes a lot of problems.

Looking back at the title of this thread Do you sometimes get really frustrated when things seem to have such an obvious solution?

I am reminded of the saying ^ For each and every problem there is a simple solution. It is almost always wrong.

Shinamae

GG I can read it fine on my iPad

Tablets work differently, I think. I can't enlarge it enough on my lap top.

www.globalcoldchainnews.com/driver-shortage-is-pan-european/

GG I can read it fine on my iPad

Thanks, GG13. I'll try to find it

(nnnnn8uuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu This is what happens when the cat decides to help with writing a post )

I tried to link but it didn’t work, the article is from Global Cold Chain News easily found online, I hope that helps MaizieD

It's unreadable, GG13. Do you have a link to it please?

While we may not be the only European country with a shortage of drivers we seem to be the only one with a resultant shortage of food...

https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202108/medium-131328-0a2bd24d-e10f-4597-99c5-47837a4bb191.png https://www.gransnet.com/uploads/talk/202108/medium-570245-5a191fdc-cab3-4d53-b133-76d6a5f871cc.png

This article is interesting, it is not just the U.K. that has a shortage of HGV drivers