What does each political group want?

I’m no Corbyn lover but I think “for the many not the few” is a very powerful aim. Simple and understandable and effective.

In reference to the description of Socialism my Grandad used to say who was the first Socialist?
His answer was Jesus Christ.
So my idea of socialism would be the ideals of Christ before either were distorted by men.

Pippa The best that I can come up with.

Core Principles of Conservatism

Individual Freedom. The birth of our great nation was inspired by the bold declaration that our individual,God-given liberties should be preserved against government intrusion. ... (I'm not sure about this - it sounds a bit American and also was the Tory party around when the UK was founded? I think not.

Limited Government. ...
The Rule of Law. ...
Peace through Strength. ...
Fiscal Responsibility. ...
Free Markets. ...
Human Dignity.

Labour Party

The Labour Party’s constitution makes the following statement: “the Labour Party is a democratic socialist party. It believes that by the strength of our common endeavour we achieve more than we achieve alone, so as to create for each of us the means to realise our true potential, and for all of us, a community in which power, wealth and opportunity are in the hands of the many, not the few.

Can you find any words that each political party would say fits their offering though Dinahmo?

Quote from Maizie

"I see Socialism as a halfway house between Communism and your definition of Social Democracy, i.e. where the state owns and manages the monopolies which contribute to the citizen's health and wellbeing, such as health & social welfare, water, energy, public spaces, some cultural institutions, education and public transport while goods and services are provided to state owned institutions and to citizens by private enterprise. A mixed economy."

Maizie* You have described exactly the situation that existed in my youth, which generally worked well.

Some of the unions were too strong, for example the Print unions. Fleet Street was rife with people signing on as Donald Duck and Micky Mouse etc and jobs where handed down from father to son. No different to that which pertains now, such as the Murdoch family.

I suspect that most people would be happy if we could get back to a mixed economy as you describe it but there are too many invested interest who would oppose the changes needed.

rather the rather

I do see what you are saying about the definition I gave of Socialism - but isn't it still what a proportion of the "Labourists" would have been putting forward as their aims in the recent past?

I'm not sure that rather "Hobson's Choice" produced that makes extremes stand on one platform allows a description of the parties core beliefs

I could suggest, as an example, that the only core belief that the Conservative Party, as a whole, shares is, say "hereditary". Could you be a "Conservative" and not believe it that. I wonder if it would be possible to make a list of core beliefs of each party and then come up with a description?

I hope this thread develops along constructive lines. I found it useful in clarifying my own thoughts.

That's why I hope it continues. We all hurl accusations/labels at each other on political threads, but without knowing how people interpret the different 'labels' and really having no idea what their political 'philosophy' really is. A party preference can mean so many different things.

Interesting take on the options we seem to have before us nowadays, in the UK at least. To my mind, they can be collapsed to four major groups:

Liberal Democracy and Social Democracy look like workable bedfellows;
Conservatism and Libertarianism likewise seem to go together;
I agree with Maizie that this definition of Socialism would equate in many minds with old style Communism;
then you have the Greens.

I hope this thread develops along constructive lines. I found it useful in clarifying my own thoughts.

Very interesting thread

PippaZ

Be brave Kitty. I'm just seeking to pick other people's brains and understand this a little more.

Oh dear. This could have been such an interesting, non confrontational thread.

Well, at least you tried, Pippa

Be brave Kitty. I'm just seeking to pick other people's brains and understand this a little more.

But it will!

kittylester

This isn't going to end well, is it?

It doesn't have to go badly Kitty.

MaizieD

^Socialism An economic and political system where the community or state owns the general means of production (i. e. farms, factories, tools, and raw materials.)^

Is that what Dr Google told you, Pippa? Because that is how I would describe Communism. If that is the true meaning of Socialism (though I suspect that it is a US take on it) then I would never subscribe to it.

I see Socialism as a halfway house between Communism and your definition of Social Democracy, i.e. where the state owns and manages the monopolies which contribute to the citizen's health and wellbeing, such as health & social welfare, water, energy, public spaces, some cultural institutions, education and public transport while goods and services are provided to state owned institutions and to citizens by private enterprise. A mixed economy.

(Sorry, couldn't do it in three lines!)

I'm not sure where Liberal Democracy fits in. Is it something to do with less state control of things like utilities?

Maizie, I think you are beginning to define what I could not, i.e., Labourism. I went for the two as there are, to me, two very disparate groups with very different fundamental beliefs.

Dinahmo, I was trying not to have an opinion but put forward what they felt they stood for. What they are "selling", perhaps. I included "Libertarianism" as I think it is the other strand of the Conservative Party in the same way that they are two opposed strands in the Labour Party. In both cases, some will overlap in the middle but I thought it would be interesting to work out what was fundamental to each group rather than what we might think of them. (I hope that makes sense

I think each party is made up of more than one group, each putting forward more than one creed.

This isn't going to end well, is it?

??‍♀️ your guess is as good as mine

Socialism An economic and political system where the community or state owns the general means of production (i. e. farms, factories, tools, and raw materials.)

Is that what Dr Google told you, Pippa? Because that is how I would describe Communism. If that is the true meaning of Socialism (though I suspect that it is a US take on it) then I would never subscribe to it.

I see Socialism as a halfway house between Communism and your definition of Social Democracy, i.e. where the state owns and manages the monopolies which contribute to the citizen's health and wellbeing, such as health & social welfare, water, energy, public spaces, some cultural institutions, education and public transport while goods and services are provided to state owned institutions and to citizens by private enterprise. A mixed economy.

(Sorry, couldn't do it in three lines!)

I'm not sure where Liberal Democracy fits in. Is it something to do with less state control of things like utilities?

I would add to conservatism - strongly supports the profit motive and will fall back on the state when all else fails as regards health.

A good example of this is Ayn Rand who believed in individual rights embodied n laissez-faire capitalism. In 1974 she had surgery for lung cancer and two years later allowed herself to be enroled for Social Security and Medicare.

To your definition of socialism I would add "now unattainable"