Geronimo

no because they are making money for someone.

Vegan I understand the owner has about 80 alpacas and breeds them, presumably for money.

She brought that unfortunate animal from the other side of the world for business purposes; it wasn't a rescue pet.

A total waste of police resources. How many officers and vehicles were involved in this debacle?
The owner should have accepted the decision and allowed him to be put down quietly at home.

Apparently they are not going to allow a post mortem. Which I would think speaks volumes for their certainly.

I must admit vegansrock that I’m a bit surprised by your stance. I mean I understand that you wouldn’t want an animal killed.

You probably don’t remember by a while back I asked you some questions about what you believed and you said your philosophy was do the least harm.

That really made sense to me. A philosophy that I could at least attempt to live by. And I have been trying, though it’s not always easy, because often it’s hard to work out what the least harm is.

So I do see things differently in this case. A tuberculoid animal can do an awful lot of harm. Unless he’s been totally isolated with his own pasture, he could have infected many of the others. And even with him own exclusive pasture, he would have infected wildlife.

I’m afraid that even if there had been one negative test amongst the positive I wouldn’t have taken the chance of infecting a whole herd.

I guess my childhood experiences of tuberculoid animals (and humans) has given me a horror of it returning to those levels.

I’d be interested in your thinking. Genuinely. ?

When foot and mouth strikes, all cattle on the infected premises are slaughtered and their carcases burnt, where they were slaughtered. Not only them, but also those within a designated area, which might be infected too. Further, it it wasn't just cattle which were slaughtered in the 2006 outbreak, but also sheep, in the sheep-farming area of the Scottish Borders and for all I know elsewhere.

To my knowledge, old retired ewes living out a peaceful existence as pets of the family, with no contact with any other sheep and never moved from one area to another, were not spared. How could they be? The wind could have blown the infection to them, and the feet of their owners could then spread it around to start it up in another place. When a deadly disease is spreading, you can't leave a pocket of possible infection.

Tuberculosis is another deadly disease.

vegansrock - this animal was transported almost 11,500 miles - was that OK?

The owner was on radio this morning saying she won't believe anything the report on the post mortem says. She is DEMANDING a vet of her choosing attend the post mortem and that George Eustice telephone her (I am sure he has plenty of spare time!!!) and that he should either be sacked or resign.

The animal has twice tested positive - yet just because she is a veterinary nurse she thinks she knows better than fully qualified vets and animal disease experts. It should also be remembered this wasn't a "much loved" pet - but an animal purchased as she has a business breeding alpacas. I wonder what she does when the animals become too old for breeding?

Elegran

When foot and mouth strikes, all cattle on the infected premises are slaughtered and their carcases burnt, where they were slaughtered. Not only them, but also those within a designated area, which might be infected too. Further, it it wasn't just cattle which were slaughtered in the 2006 outbreak, but also sheep, in the sheep-farming area of the Scottish Borders and for all I know elsewhere.

To my knowledge, old retired ewes living out a peaceful existence as pets of the family, with no contact with any other sheep and never moved from one area to another, were not spared. How could they be? The wind could have blown the infection to them, and the feet of their owners could then spread it around to start it up in another place. When a deadly disease is spreading, you can't leave a pocket of possible infection.

Tuberculosis is another deadly disease.

The Chillingham Cattle came very close to being culled that time but culled they would have been and what a great loss that would have been. They are unique.

Daisymae

Apparently they are not going to allow a post mortem. Which I would think speaks volumes for their certainly.

That’s wrong. APHA are carrying out a post mortem. What they are not allowing is an independent observer or the provision of tissue samples to the animal’s owner. Normal hygiene and safety procedures.

If bovine TB or foot and mouth were to spread to her herd of breeding alpacas from a neighbouring cattle herd which had tested positive - twice - but whose owners had refused to have them slaughtered, she would be devastated, and making a great noise about rules applying to everyone.

vegansrock - this animal was transported almost 11,500 miles - was that OK?

I don't know why she brought it over from New Zealand, Oldwoman, as we do have alpacas here.

She made the situation far worse and the poor animal had to be dragged away with all those people around instead of a peaceful euthanasia with just the vets and owner there.

Interestingly, it was Helen MacDonald herself who chose to use the Enferplex test back in 2016, praising its sensitivity and accuracy. It was specifically developed for use on camelIds. It’s also interesting to learn that they are in a high bTB risk area.

She certainly seems to have changed her tune now things aren’t going her way. Her 2016 blog makes interesting reading.

alpacapower.co.uk/blog/voluntary-btb-testing-camelids/

Oh. Do you think she’ll retest her whole herd again now? It would be wise.

Quite a profitable business she’s got there, shipping all over Europe. This can’t have done her any good business wise. Except perhaps with animal rights activists who would by an alpaca for a pet.

I have no control over what was going to happen, but all those people plus a screaming alpaca has really upset me. I have had to have animals pts in the past, we tried to make it as relaxed as possible. I have no idea what they were all thinking, especially the owner.

Interesting, Peasblossom and Blossoming

There is far more to this than has been reported.

JaneJudge yes.
I remember when one of DD and SIL's dogs had to be pts by the vet at home; peacefully and quietly with SIL holding her and talking to her, but my SIL had tears pouring down his face (and he is no softie).

If I owned an animal in those circumstances, I would have agreed to the animal being put down once it was unavoidable rather than let it have such a traumatic end. That is not loving your animal. The owner should be ashaned of herself.

maddyone I agree - it was horrible to see the footage that I accidentally clicked onto and it will stay in my mind.

Callistemon

^vegansrock - this animal was transported almost 11,500 miles - was that OK?^

I don't know why she brought it over from New Zealand, Oldwoman, as we do have alpacas here.

She made the situation far worse and the poor animal had to be dragged away with all those people around instead of a peaceful euthanasia with just the vets and owner there.

high quality breeding stock of many animals is bought and sold all over the world. This was not just any animal lover with beloved pets, She is a breeder and dealer.

I sobbed over the hamster when the vet said he couldn’t do anything for her. She was a rescue hamster. We’d only had her a couple of months, but her end was peaceful n my hands.

It would have been a real blow to her business to have a tab positive animal in her flock.

But now won’t her potential customers just have a load of doubts about the health of her animals and whether she tests them. I don’t think I’d trust her testing,

She may have shot herself in the foot commercially. Especially in Europe. Or maybe the European market was lost with Brexit and the business was struggling.

Wheels within wheels.

And now I’ve brought Brexit into it??

Peasblossom I have cried buckets over every lost pet but I’ve always done my best to let them go peacefully and gently.

Peasblossom the B-word occurred to me too but I didn’t want to mention it! It’s hard to imagine what the motivation is here, they can no longer claim bio security for the farm, or fully TT tested for the herd.

Compensation??

You can see why there is a high suicide rate amongst vets can't you? it must be SUCH difficult job. Not only do you have to deal with poorly animals, you have to cope with lots of very upset humans.

JaneJudge

I have no control over what was going to happen, but all those people plus a screaming alpaca has really upset me. I have had to have animals pts in the past, we tried to make it as relaxed as possible. I have no idea what they were all thinking, especially the owner.

With all the years of pet ownership and the mistakes I’ve made along the way the ones that haunt me the most are where I’ve had an animal pts in a way that was stressful and unplanned. Thankfully I’ve usually had a vet come to my house but when that hasn’t been possible I still agonise over how I let the poor thing down in some way.