Julie Bindel, new book - feminism for women, the route to freedom. Interviewed by Emma Barnett on women’s hour today

So why have you brought in an example about violence by a cis man, in order to try to make a point about trans women? 1) The two are totally not related. 2) You haven't made a comment about the topic.

Because one of the campaigns Bindel is involved with is the rough sex defense, and we had started talking about that.

Gaga the killer was a man - you know what a violent man is, even if not personally I hope, but a man, as most of us understand the word 'man'.

Why say 'Cis man'?

I dont understand why they cant legislate that if someone dies of strangulation that it is always non consensual, that has happened in other horrific cases involving other activities.

And how do you know it was a 'Cis man', not a trans-man?

After all, a transman is a man.

Riverwalk

Gaga the killer was a man - you know what a violent man is, even if not personally I hope, but a man, as most of us understand the word 'man'.

Why say 'Cis man'?

A young mother of two children was strangled to death by a man who can't even remember doing it. The man was sentenced to four years and eight months. Why is this so less important than the feelings of trans women. This is the quote from Riverwalk. What is the link between the cis man killing and the trans woman she's referenced?

It was me that brought up the light sentence for the man that strangled to death a young mother, I am not referencing any trans women or trans man, just wanted to reinforce the wish that we could discuss any aspect of women's lives without having to make trans women front and centre of every discussion.

GagaJo the point is that this discussion is not about trans people so please could people not try to shoehorn them in.

I really thought the "rough sex" defence had been done away with, so that harm done in that way is treated the same as if it was in any other situation.
I must be wrong about that?

If you listen to the Woman's Hour interview, btw, you'll hear JB compare that man's sentence with the one given to a woman who killed her abusive male partner in self defence.

It was used as part of his defense from what I can see, in that he said she enjoyed doing that, but then part of his defense was also that he couldn't remember anything.

FarNorth

GagaJo the point is that this discussion is not about trans people so please could people not try to shoehorn them in.

I didn't! The quote was from Riverwalk. THIS is her quote.

'A young mother of two children was strangled to death by a man who can't even remember doing it. The man was sentenced to four years and eight months. Why is this so less important than the feelings of trans women'.

I couldn't agree more with sticking to the topic! That is what I asked at 15.51 if you go back to read!

I asked the same thing at 15.09 if you go back further too.

Get it right before you start making accusations.

I believe the widespread, easy availability of porn that is damaging to the consumers of it. I'm trying hard not to be all Mary Whitehouse about this but the unrealistic expectation of appearance of the participants and extremes of sexual behaviour that includes violence, including choking are causing a tsunami of issues that are impossible to quantify. Porn damages both men and women. How many women and girls (and it is mostly women and girls) must die before we tackle the porn issue.

'A young mother of two children was strangled to death by a man who can't even remember doing it. The man was sentenced to four years and eight months. Why is this so less important than the feelings of trans women'.

Gaga you've now twice incorrectly attributed the above quote to me.

Apologies Riverwalk, it was of course Ilovecheese. Really sorry.

Ilovecheese

It was me that brought up the light sentence for the man that strangled to death a young mother, I am not referencing any trans women or trans man, just wanted to reinforce the wish that we could discuss any aspect of women's lives without having to make trans women front and centre of every discussion.

IKR
it is exasperating

So lets discuss why such light sentences are given out to men and longer ones to women if you want. Although I would have thought it was pretty obvious men are expected to be violent and women are expected not to be, and those expectations are reflected in the legal system and in the conclusions reached by legal experts. Not much to do with feminist men though and absolutely nothing to do with transwomen.

Quite a lot to do with Julie Bindels work though, the subject of the thread.

I was was under the impression that the topic was whether men could be feminists or not. It's my opinion that they can be. I've known a couple. Which given my age and how much I've moved around the world, isn't a lot. But they WERE definitely feminists.

I thought it was about her new book and interview on women's hour.

I am sick of women dismissing safeguarding concerns regarding self iD. I am not the one being narrow minded. It works in both directions. It is not bigoted towards trans women to express concern around how this is and can be abused.

FFS. Back to trans issues again.

It seems to me that those who protest the most about trans being so central to everything are those that continuously bring them up, while the rest of us just get on with life.

I don't think though that when people believe that trans women are women they are willing to listen to a different opinion. It is a belief, and people don't change their beliefs very easily.

They just "know " that they are right, and very often get quite angry about being challenged.

But Gagajo I tried to discuss another aspect of Julie Bindel's work, but that was apparently not worthy of discussion.