Is Starmer finally getting his team together to fight back?

Ilovecheese

I think it is rather sad that Boris Johnson has lost approval ratings because he is giving money to the NHS, not because of his lies or his incompetence.

It's not that he's giving money to the NHS it's the people that it's being taken from.

I dont entirely blame labour for it all Pippa! I am a labour voter and member, but Brexit didnt just happen, it was a long process, years in which the remainers on both sides failed to demonstrate the benefits of immigration etc (mainly because they didnt realise they needed to defend it) it's important to acknowledge that Labour didnt 'speak' to many of their traditional voters.

Galaxy

Indeed but it's much more complex than Brexit, there were fundamental reasons why those constituencies voted leave in the first place, those issues weren't addressed by labour for years. To badly quote Alan Johnson 'the working class has never behaved in the way you wanted them to'.

there were fundamental reasons why those constituencies voted leave in the first place, those issues weren't addressed by labour for years.

I don't know what proportion 11 years are of your life, but it really is quite a long period during which the Labour Party haven't been in power. What do you think they would have been able to do in that time?

If they carry on the infighting they will probably be out in the cold for another 11 years. Meanwhile, we will have a chance to find out that none of us is wealthy enough to benefit from a Tory government.

Probably people calling them stupid was part of that vote maybee.

MaizieD

Anniebach

I assume Corbyn’s tremendous welcome up north was not during a lockdown

Of course not.

Lockdown hasn't exactly given Starmer much opportunity to come north, either. But hasn't he been travelling around over this summer?

Personally I can't fathom the Corbyn hate or the Starmer hate. I don't think either are as black as painted by various factions.

I can't either Maizie. All the infighting can do is lose Labour another election.

Galaxy

Yes the North loved him so much the seat I live in - 50 years held by labour - turned conservative in 2019, so no that's not the true picture.

?
I think only his devotees loved him, voters ( as opposed to the membership) not so much.

MayBee70

Galaxy

Indeed but it's much more complex than Brexit, there were fundamental reasons why those constituencies voted leave in the first place, those issues weren't addressed by labour for years. To badly quote Alan Johnson 'the working class has never behaved in the way you wanted them to'.

So they voted brexit and Conservative as a protest. Really clever that .

No, it wasn’t a protest, they voted that way because either they had voted to leave the EU and wanted it to be implemented as soon as possible, or they had been traditional Labour voters up to then, but saw Corbyn and McDonnell as a pair of old marxists who didn’t represent them and their aspirations. Possibly both reasons at the same time. It may be the case that they still don’t see the LP under Keir Starmer as representing them either, however we have left the EU and there isn’t an extreme left winger at the helm of Labour, and given that the Conservatives have been in power for so very long, it would be surprising if they won again at the next GE.
Starmer can afford to ‘keep his powder dry’ for quite a while yet.

MaizieD

trisher

MaizieD

trisher

Galaxy

Yes the North loved him so much the seat I live in - 50 years held by labour - turned conservative in 2019, so no that's not the true picture.

Do you imagine a reamainer like Starmer would have done better?

As it is well known that more Labour voters voted remain than voted leave I really don't see that that is relevant. There were an awful lot of remain voters totally hacked off by Corbyn...

MaizieD Every Northern constituency that turned Blue in 2019 had a majority vote for leave. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_wall_(British_politics)

But they didn't vote for Socialist Leaver Corbyn, did they? So what was going on?

Stitch up by the establishment

Galaxy

Indeed but it's much more complex than Brexit, there were fundamental reasons why those constituencies voted leave in the first place, those issues weren't addressed by labour for years. To badly quote Alan Johnson 'the working class has never behaved in the way you wanted them to'.

So they voted brexit and Conservative as a protest. Really clever that .

trisher

MaizieD

trisher

Galaxy

Yes the North loved him so much the seat I live in - 50 years held by labour - turned conservative in 2019, so no that's not the true picture.

Do you imagine a reamainer like Starmer would have done better?

As it is well known that more Labour voters voted remain than voted leave I really don't see that that is relevant. There were an awful lot of remain voters totally hacked off by Corbyn...

MaizieD Every Northern constituency that turned Blue in 2019 had a majority vote for leave. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_wall_(British_politics)

But they didn't vote for Socialist Leaver Corbyn, did they? So what was going on?

That is so true galaxy!

Indeed but it's much more complex than Brexit, there were fundamental reasons why those constituencies voted leave in the first place, those issues weren't addressed by labour for years. To badly quote Alan Johnson 'the working class has never behaved in the way you wanted them to'.

MaizieD

trisher

Galaxy

Yes the North loved him so much the seat I live in - 50 years held by labour - turned conservative in 2019, so no that's not the true picture.

Do you imagine a reamainer like Starmer would have done better?

As it is well known that more Labour voters voted remain than voted leave I really don't see that that is relevant. There were an awful lot of remain voters totally hacked off by Corbyn...

MaizieD Every Northern constituency that turned Blue in 2019 had a majority vote for leave. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_wall_(British_politics)

I think it is rather sad that Boris Johnson has lost approval ratings because he is giving money to the NHS, not because of his lies or his incompetence.

Well the previous holder was a strong remainer who is still very popular within the community so perhaps it's not as simplistic as Brexit up here.

trisher

Galaxy

Yes the North loved him so much the seat I live in - 50 years held by labour - turned conservative in 2019, so no that's not the true picture.

Do you imagine a reamainer like Starmer would have done better?

As it is well known that more Labour voters voted remain than voted leave I really don't see that that is relevant. There were an awful lot of remain voters totally hacked off by Corbyn...

Anniebach

I assume Corbyn’s tremendous welcome up north was not during a lockdown

Abbie Starmer has been the leader of the LP throughout lockdown. He hasn't been seen anywhere very much, so I understand if you didn't realise.

Anniebach

I assume Corbyn’s tremendous welcome up north was not during a lockdown

Of course not.

Lockdown hasn't exactly given Starmer much opportunity to come north, either. But hasn't he been travelling around over this summer?

Personally I can't fathom the Corbyn hate or the Starmer hate. I don't think either are as black as painted by various factions.

Galaxy

Yes the North loved him so much the seat I live in - 50 years held by labour - turned conservative in 2019, so no that's not the true picture.

Do you imagine a reamainer like Starmer would have done better?

MaizieD

^representing very little of what labour is about in the modern world ^

It would be interesting to know what you think that 'Labour is about in the modern world', Gabrielle56. You sound as though you think that Corbyn's mild Socialism is full blown Communism. But, confusingly, you sound a bit 'up the workers' too..

BTW you are badly misjudging growstuff

Well Said

I assume Corbyn’s tremendous welcome up north was not during a lockdown

Yes the North loved him so much the seat I live in - 50 years held by labour - turned conservative in 2019, so no that's not the true picture.

Gabrielle56

Strong words indeed if misguided grany. Name calling does nought to progress discussion. Corbyn was a non runner for so many labour supporters, I saw him as having more than one foot in the past, and representing very little of what labour is about in the modern world and even less of anyone not residing in the South East of England . I doubt he'd even ventured oop North, unless he classes Watford as north? Glad he'd gone, we need someone who's got half an inkling about the issues for the whole of UK, not just"that London". I really hope Starmer &co can build a strong group to outwit and reveal to those on fence just how much damage Tories do to us all whenever they get in the hot seat. We should be saying"never again" to the old order of Society destroyers .

I can assure you Corbyn came North. He spoke to crowds of people outside the Sage in Gateshead and received a tremendous welcome and great approval. He spoke at a meeting Newcastle City Hall and was given a standing ovation. The North loved him.
Starmer on the other hand is regarded as a two faced, fence sitting Remainer who never steps outside the Westminster bubble.

representing very little of what labour is about in the modern world

It would be interesting to know what you think that 'Labour is about in the modern world', Gabrielle56. You sound as though you think that Corbyn's mild Socialism is full blown Communism. But, confusingly, you sound a bit 'up the workers' too..

BTW you are badly misjudging growstuff

Gabrielle56

Grany, you really do sound like some far left idealistic knit yer own knickers wannabe leftie! Having family with first hand experience of what communism is all about, in real time, really- you really don't know what you're talking about

I am proud lefty A socialist not communist.