Don’t underestimate this u-turn

Well they will be over here in droves if the reports are true about the pay HGV drivers can demand now?

It was Thatcher that was very much in league with the road transport lot I believe. She was no fan of the railways.

Maybe now is the time to stop putting all good into huge lorries which clog up our roads and put freight back on the railways and canals - and stop expecting everything to be delivered instantly (accepting that some things need to be).

The imagery in your title to this thread was actually very clever Whitewavemark2 in relation to government and vehicles alike!

EU drivers that come here to work now have to pass the UK HGV test because we don’t recognize their EU licence unless the are doing international work. So unless they are going to be allowed to use EU qualifications it does not help much.

The problem with the whole haulage industry is how much the customer will pay, on any day it’s the truck that will make the journey for the lowest cost, in that situation with so many self employed drivers improving wages long term is very difficult.

Remind me who was it said “Fuck business”

Chickens and roost springs to mind. ?

If an Eastern EU worker can earn enough waitressing in the UK to buy her home affer 5 years then it is likely the UK will attract drivers, even temporary.

If there wasn't actually a shortage of HGV in Europe I could see your reasoning. But there is a shortage and Freedom of Movement makes it much easier for drivers to find well paid work within the EU rather than go through the faff of getting a visa etc. to come to the UK. I think we may get a few, but not many.

All this government is now doing is crises management - it is no longer in control but chasing to try and avoid the next lot of chaos.

GrannyGravy13

We were out to dinner last night in a local Turkish Restaurant, we were talking with the Romanian waitress who has been there for two years. She intends to stay for another three years by which time she will have saved enough to go back home and by herself a house outright

To say that all Eastern European workers left in droves on 31/12/20 is somewhat erroneous.

If an Eastern EU worker can earn enough waitressing in the UK to buy her home affer 5 years then it is likely the UK will attract drivers, even temporary. I still hope British industry makes a U-turn and starts investing in our young people again.

Rather hoping someone woukd tell me I have got it wrong - afterall didn't the government re-launch 'apprenticeships' a few years back?

If you are a Romanian waitress, nurse, carer etc choosing to carry on working in the UK at least you are improving your language skills and maybe even furthering your prospects. There is no such pull for a Romanian HGV driver so it can only be the money that draws them. I'm guessing if they are paid enough they will return for a while at least.

MaizieD I would assume that this up market restaurant pays its staff above average wages. All the staff apart from two British females are either Turkish or Eastern European.

There is indeed a shortage of HGV drivers all over Europe- but no shortages of anything. Do you think those HGV drivers will go and work where they are well treated, welcomed even- with good roadside conditions, toilets, food, and no waits at borders, and no masses of red tape- and where the currency has a good exchange rate for them to take salary back to family back home ...

or the UK where they have been treated so badly, conditions awfuls, waits, redtape, and noy only wanted on short contracts without any security at all? Really?

GrannyGravy13

We were out to dinner last night in a local Turkish Restaurant, we were talking with the Romanian waitress who has been there for two years. She intends to stay for another three years by which time she will have saved enough to go back home and by herself a house outright

To say that all Eastern European workers left in droves on 31/12/20 is somewhat erroneous.

Oh, one or two stayed on so that proves they didn't leave in droves?

Enough left to put some industries into crisis mode

Interesting, in view of all the anti EU propaganda about EU workers keeping UK wages low, that she can earn enough to support here while she is here and go back and buy herself a house...

lemongrove

Scones

"I'm just fed up with every hiccup being a stick to beat the government with"

Current 'hiccups' include:-

The army driving ambulances is Scotland.
Chemotherapy being rationed due to staff shortages.
Waste collections delayed/cancelled due to staff shortages.
Petrol not being delivered to points of sale.
18% of people reporting not being able to buy essential food in the last week.
1,500 in hospital in Scotland purely because no suitable social care is available.
136,000 Coronavirus related deaths.

Stick-worthy hiccups.

Not so.
Staff shortages for delivering chemotherapy and waste collections are due to Covid.
Petrol ( no shortage) just BP having problems
Army helping out by driving ambulances....all good! That’s the government stepping up to the plate ( and NS requested it.)
We have just been through a terrible pandemic and yet it appears some people are outraged at the consequences....the same government got us all early vaccinations, remember?
They are not miracle workers.

The whole of Europe has been through the same, some countries much worse than UK (Italy) - and yet there are NO shortages of food, petrol, or essential life saving drugs for cancer.

Why?

We were out to dinner last night in a local Turkish Restaurant, we were talking with the Romanian waitress who has been there for two years. She intends to stay for another three years by which time she will have saved enough to go back home and by herself a house outright

To say that all Eastern European workers left in droves on 31/12/20 is somewhat erroneous.

I've seen it pointed out this morning that if there is a shortage of HGV drivers in the EU, and EU companies pay better wages, why should EU HGV drivers bother to come to the UK?

I don't think this temporary visa is going to contribute much to solving the problem.

This is going to be the narrative, I think, for a while.

Its was all about democracy, at least Boris got Brexit done, teething troubles, who expected a pandemic?

And it would be fine if people just took the jobs they were offered.

I voted for entering what is now the EU but was called something else back in the 70s, also voted to remain in the Brexit vote and was disappointed to have lost that vote. However, I truly believe in democracy, so when it became apparent that there was so much obstruction to Britain actually leaving, which is what the majority had actually voted for, I became a turncoat and became obsessed with needing to leave. So much so, that I voted Conservative for the first time in my life, in order to bring that outcome about. There was always going to be teething problems as we first go it alone and who would have thought we’d be hit by a pandemic straight away, but now at least democracy has played out in the way that it should. The British should take up all available employment themselves, regardless of how physically hard it is and probably would if they received a decent wage.

It's easy to say we'll get HGV drivers from abroad - but how? Apparently freelance hauliers have regular routes which used to include the UK. The UK is no longer included in those routes so why should the drivers change their plans to include us? If by following a particular route they are able to work the hours and earn the money that they need, why change to work in a country that patently did not want immigrants?

The same principle applies to the farmers in Kent with many acres of poly tunnels. I heard a soft fruit grower talking before Brexit, explaining that his workers came over for the season, they lived in accommodation provided by him and that many of them had been coming for a number of years.
They are no longer coming.

Hello Mr/s HGV person, would you like a job here in the fabulous land of milk and honey that is the UK?

Oh, yes please, I've always wanted to live in the UK

Oh no, you don't get to live here. We only want your skills temporarily because we can't get it together enough to train up our own citizens.

Can I have a permanent contract then?

Absolutely not, we just need you to fill in until the proper drivers get trained, you know, the British ones.

My pal got stuck at the border last year, no food, water or toilet facilities for days on end. That won't happen again will it?

Well it might. Just sign here please.

Erm....no thanks. See ya.

I agree HolySox and think at the moment we need to pay to get HGV drivers from abroad whilst doing as much as is humanly possible to interest younger drivers here at home, good pay and other incentives with free training programmes and fast tracking testing.

NotSpaghetti

Whitewavemark2 I wasn't trying to ask if we were lazy, I asked if we'd always been thought of as lazy?

I'm wondering how we were thought of in, say, the middle ages?
The agricultural/agrarian revolution? Is it, say, a product of Victorian workhouses? When did it start if people think it?

I don’t know tbh. I do think that governments have used this when the economy goes pear-shaped though.

Grant Shapps, transport secretary, said yesterday the government expected businesses to train UK drivers in lieu of losing migrant drivers. They have failed to do this. I think UK businesses have got used to letting other people (countries) train staff to keep their costs down, profits up. This coupled with a 'go to University' message to our young people has meant the UK is failing our young people. Hopefully current problems will reverse this attitude in the UK and we start investing in our young people again.

Many years ago we sent ships to Africa to get 'free' labour. Exploiting our poorer European neighbours by taking their skilled workers isn't quite so bad ... but our young generation are paying for it. They aren't getting training opportunities. If they want higher education they are getting massive personal debt. Maybe current economic problems will lead to better opportunities for young people.

Whitewavemark2 I wasn't trying to ask if we were lazy, I asked if we'd always been thought of as lazy?

I'm wondering how we were thought of in, say, the middle ages?
The agricultural/agrarian revolution? Is it, say, a product of Victorian workhouses? When did it start if people think it?

lemongrove

M0nica

The media will play this down

What evidence, ahead of the event that this will happen?

Surely you should have an open mind and judge events as they come. You also need to consider that others may not see this event as being as humiliating or as significant as you do.

I am not offering any opinion on this subject at all at the moment.

It looks as if 6 month temporary visas are being granted to EU HGV drivers to help ease the problem .....and why not? This is sensible and what we who voted to leave the EU wanted, not unlimited freedom of movement but controlled immigration.
In certain areas, ( the haulage industry specifically) we should feel free to do what is needed.
The only problem I can see is because there is a Europe wide shortage of drivers we may struggle to get them....firms will have to offer more money than they can earn at home.
Eastern European drivers are the most likely to apply.

We’ll probably struggle to get them because of the hostile environment towards them that brexit has caused imo….