Don’t underestimate this u-turn

To clarify when I say they all I don't mean every Irishman who came over, I mean the ones who drank in our pub and we knew them.

Septimia

Then Alegrias, I hope you'll beat any government in the same way, because none of them are perfect.

I'll certainly call them out for their shortcomings. That's what you're expected to do in a democracy, it's how it works.

However, some are more egregiously useless than others.

It suits business to call our workers lazy rather than reduce prophets and pay a proper wage and ensure good conditions.

NotSpaghetti

O crikey WWM I had no idea... why would she even say that if she wants to get people working?

I'm asking was it always so? Were we always thought of as lazy?
Is it a myth?
Just pondering...

I grew up in an "Irish" pub in a big English city. When young men came over to work on the roads, building sites, factories etc in the 1950s and 1960s they all felt the English were lazy. I don't know if it was true as I was a schoolgirl but it was definitely how people talked.

Then Alegrias, I hope you'll beat any government in the same way, because none of them are perfect.

Apparently they were continually told by the businesses but their ideologues refused to listen.

What I'd like to know is why aren't there enough people in Britain to do all the jobs?

There isn’t a balance between the jobs that need doing and the number of people available to do them, that always adds up to zero. When there was free movement, people from all over Europe could move to the place where there were jobs that suited their qualifications and ambitions. Now they can’t. For many of us, moving from the UK to Spain to work was exactly the same as moving from Sussex to Yorkshire. Can you imagine if there were rules that said you couldn’t move from Sussex to Yorkshire? Would people be saying “why can’t all the Yorkshire people do the jobs, they must be lazy?”

Silly analogy, I know, but I think it works.

If the government had been bright enough to work out that there were going to be issues because of lack of suitably trained people to do the jobs, they had 5 years to do something about it, between 2016 and 2021. But they didn’t bother. So I’ll be continuing to beat the government Septimia, with any stick I can find.

NotSpaghetti

O crikey WWM I had no idea... why would she even say that if she wants to get people working?

I'm asking was it always so? Were we always thought of as lazy?
Is it a myth?
Just pondering...

?. Honestly why would we be any lazier than any other worker in the world?

Of course we aren’t. We, however may not be prepared to work for very poor pay and/or conditions though, and why shouldn’t we?

That is why we have such an aged set of lorry drivers who have grown up with the extremely bad conditions and relatively poor pay.
The young are simply not prepared to put up with it and good on them I say.

And didn’t Farage say we would have a Norway style relationship? I.e. stay in single market? A hard Brexit was NOT what majority voted for.

Alegrias no, not the lazy Brit trope, just a matter of numbers. And I didn't say that all people are lazy, it's just that there are some jobs that people haven't fancied doing in recent times. After all, there are people, for example those in the theatre, who took work as food delivery drivers etc during the pandemic.

I'm just fed up with every hiccup being a stick to beat the government with (no I don't think they are getting things right) and the divisions this causes in society. Both Brexit and Covid are new situations and whoever was in charge they'd get at least some things wrong. What happened to pulling together.

And, for what it's worth, I think the referendum was badly organised. The vote was far too close - the percentage difference should have had to be much wider for it to have counted.

O crikey WWM I had no idea... why would she even say that if she wants to get people working?

I'm asking was it always so? Were we always thought of as lazy?
Is it a myth?
Just pondering...

Someone living in Germany has said that the chaos has made headline news in the German television etc. They have no such chaos.

The only factor they do not have in common is Brexit.

So the logical conclusion is that Brexit is unfolding exactly as predicted.

What I'd like to know is why aren't there enough people in Britain to do all the jobs? It's a genuine question, not a political point by the way. I voted remain, I never had any problems with European people coming here. They offered a lot of skills and definitely worked hard.

Septimia

*MaizieD*, have you never wondered about the Common Agricultural Policy? How can you have one system when the climate, soil conditions, farming structure and crops etc. vary so widely across the EU?

As for earning a living, leaving aside the problems of training HGV drivers, there are job vacancies but also people who would rather not take them because they involve hard work.

Ah, the lazy Brit trope.

Is that you Dominic?

Were not was

NotSpaghetti

Not sure what to think about this:
Have you read the book co-wrote by Raab, and Patel?
You’d like it.

???

I'm afraid reading a book by Patel is not on my to-do list!

They said that the British workers was one of the laziest.

MaizieD, have you never wondered about the Common Agricultural Policy? How can you have one system when the climate, soil conditions, farming structure and crops etc. vary so widely across the EU?

As for earning a living, leaving aside the problems of training HGV drivers, there are job vacancies but also people who would rather not take them because they involve hard work.

We'll be told its not a u-turn, that this is an example of us being able to target immigration to suit our requirements at any time, that this is exactly what "the people" voted for, and it wouldn't have happened without Covid, wasn't that unlucky?

And the credulous Eurosceptics will believe it

where, I feel, we've never been welcome and where the 'one size fits all' system of regulations simply doesn't fit all.

There are an awful lot of struggling, failing or failed EU focussed businesses as a result of this national lunacy. I think they'd consider your 'feelz' to be rather less important than earning a living and giving employment to others.

(Your assertions are untrue, anyway)

White wave. Yes I remember that fiasco last Christmas. Disgraceful. Those poor drivers were treated very badly by the authorities. I am sure they won’t be rushing to take those jobs again. Who would. What a crazy world we are living in ,
I went to get petrol yesterday. The queues were everywhere, I will not queue , I am not stockpiling. The half tank will just have to do , I can walk or get the bus. At least I don’t need it to get to work or take kids to school like some do ,

The media will play this down

What evidence, ahead of the event that this will happen?

Surely you should have an open mind and judge events as they come. You also need to consider that others may not see this event as being as humiliating or as significant as you do.

I am not offering any opinion on this subject at all at the moment.

Not sure what to think about this:
Have you read the book co-wrote by Raab, and Patel?
You’d like it.

???

I'm afraid reading a book by Patel is not on my to-do list!

Whoops: pros and cons

They know that leaving the single market has never been voted on by the British public, and a return would undoubtedly be welcomed by the vast majority.

I didn't vote to leave the EU (I didn't vote to stay, either, as I could see pros on cons for both) and I didn't vote to join in the first place.

I know that much of the process hasn't been handled well but I, for one, have no desire to rejoin a group where, I feel, we've never been welcome and where the 'one size fits all' system of regulations simply doesn't fit all.

There were always going to be teething problems with the leaving process, Covid hasn't helped, but it does seem there was a distinct lack of foresight.

“Cast your mind back to the run up to last Christmas. Remember all those European drivers who were kept here in their cabs without food, water or toilets by the UK authorities. Some never made it home for Christmas. If you were one of those drivers, would you be rushing back here?”

Twitter.