Labour party conference, is no-one else interested?

Actually rabbitgran that kind of contempt for people is part of the problem. Hopefully the labour party under Starmer wont play that game.

The right wing media and the Conservatives have spent quite a long time trying to find some dirt to stick on Starmer and, after the failure of criticising him for what turned out to be a donkey sanctuary fir his wheelchair bound mum to look at through her window the best they can come up with is ‘lacking in charisma’.

The right wing media have decreed that Starmer is not charismatic but there is always a concerted effort to destroy Labour leaders. Personally I don't look for film star qualities in politicians, I look for expertise, competence and decency. Charisma belongs to politicians like Hitler, Mussolini, Stalin and is dangerous. The English sheep in the red wall constituencies will vote according to the orders of the media and are bringing us all down. TV vox pops in Dudley and Retford yesterday had people, mainly women, who do not know who Keir Starmer is and seem proud of this. I do not think this is Keir Starmer's fault. I think that these people probably couldn't name any other member of the government. But we don't know because they weren't asked. There was a male factory worker interviewed who supported Boris Johnson because he is 'one of the lads'. Even the TV reporter was taken aback. The Labour party should get behind their leader and show some loyalty but it won't happen. Unpleasantness, disloyalty and division is not an attractive look. A lot of the Labour left are career activists and don't care about Labour being elected. This inability to compromise is actually a betrayal of working people and a better society.

MayBee70

Well, given that our covid infection rate seems to be the worst in Europe we certainly don’t seem to be living in a nanny state at the moment do we ( mores the pity)….

Indeed! We need to fond a better nanny.

True Maizie (and I'm sure much of it was a con) but it's a fact that the state did step in and the country would be in a far worse state if the situation had been left to the "market" to sort out or survival of the fittest. Some Tory backbenchers and anti-lock downers object to the state acting as a "nanny", but there are times when the state has to intervene. I would include homelessness, supporting the poorest and most vulnerable, education/training and kickstarting business in the state's responsibilities as a "nanny" state - the "market" will never provide solutions. Maybe Conservatives don't care about the homeless, poorest, most vulnerable and the unemployed.

Well, given that our covid infection rate seems to be the worst in Europe we certainly don’t seem to be living in a nanny state at the moment do we ( mores the pity)….

growstuff

MaizieD

I do not wish to live in a nanny state

I've always been a bit puzzled as to what a 'nanny state' is, rosie1959

Would you care to explain what you mean?

I think it includes the government's helping people out when there's a crisis, for example by introducing a furlough scheme when people can't work, temporarily raising benefits for people facing additional costs or who can't find a job in the current circumstances, helping some self-employed people who can't operate their businesses as a result of a crisis, spending billions on a vaccination programme which people need .... Hmmm ....

I so wanted to hear rosie1959's examples of what constituted a 'nanny state' but we got sidetracked

I don't think your example counts, growstuff because nanny plans to extract as much of that bounty as possible back from its recipients It's more like usury than nannying...

Bad nannies dump their charges when it suits them. Good nannies carry on with the nurturing (ask Jacob Rees-Mogg).

MaizieD

^I do not wish to live in a nanny state ^

I've always been a bit puzzled as to what a 'nanny state' is, rosie1959

Would you care to explain what you mean?

I think it includes the government's helping people out when there's a crisis, for example by introducing a furlough scheme when people can't work, temporarily raising benefits for people facing additional costs or who can't find a job in the current circumstances, helping some self-employed people who can't operate their businesses as a result of a crisis, spending billions on a vaccination programme which people need .... Hmmm ....

I don’t see how Starmer can be blamed by Momentum types for failing to unite the party. They don’t want a braid Church or consensus reaching. It’s their way or you’re wrong. When Corbyn was leader, he and his cohort demanded total support. Something he failed ever to give to party leaders ever.

The conference went well all things considered. The idea that some posters here prefer an incompetent shambolic reactive dishonest individual as PM than an intelligent, hardworking man with a good career record and integrity shouldn’t surprise me.

The difference is PippaZ I gave a personal experience I would not attack your character assuming I know all about you that would be rude and unnecessary and would definitely not make sarcastic comments about your political preference.
If you cant see this difference then I may be a Conservative voter but I prefer not to make comments about someone I don't actually know

rosie1959

PippaZ you obviously know all about me making the exchange of views very personal
I tend not to rant on and tell other people what they should think
Most importantly I do not berate people for different views I don't need to

You were the one who made it personal rosie. You cannot put forward an argument based on such a personal reaction to the Financial Crisis and not expect anyone to comment.

Mind you, that is exactly what Boris does, isn't it. All comments he doesn't like are either not replied to or "it's done" or I don't agree with the law, etc. Yep. I think you are very much in the right party.

PippaZ you obviously know all about me making the exchange of views very personal
I tend not to rant on and tell other people what they should think
Most importantly I do not berate people for different views I don't need to

rosie1959

MayBee70

Nanny state = caring state. imo

You may well be right MayBee unfortunately the electorate didn’t agree with Labour at the last election. Perhaps next time

No, they didn't. Boris lied. He told them to leave the EU. He, Boris, would turn the UK into a magical land if they did. They are beginning to see it isn't and he can't. He told them (nanny-wise) that he would level up their lives - he won't.

This winter, unless this government U-turn again, people will have an unnecessary cost of living squeeze. The people in the North, promised levelling up, will be the worst hit by the heating crisis. Some will be left without a job as the furlough system ends. They will go onto a level of Universal Credit which has had its legs chopped off.

You blame the Labour for the International Finacial Crisis - where the world thought Labour had done well - because you only judge by the personal effect it had. Why do you think the man who led the country with the highest deaths in Europe will be forgiven? Do you think the Prime Minister of the government that said they would level up and make things better but leaves people worse off than they have ever known, will be forgiven? Why do you think the government that is about to push many people into almost impossible poverty or unforgivably low paid jobs they cannot keep families on won't feel just as you did and take it personally? These people do have a vote. Do you think Conservatives will be forgiven by them?

You think that he will still "win" because you are a true Johnson Conservative. It is one rule for you while the poorest and most deprived should not complain. You do, indeed, share the ethos of Johnson.

MaizieD

^ but I can remember the chaos in the economy we are Mortgage brokers and it nearly took us under^

Global financial crisis? Nothing to do with Labour.

A bit like the global pandemic nothing to do with Conservatives

rosie1959

MayBee70

Nanny state = caring state. imo

You may well be right MayBee unfortunately the electorate didn’t agree with Labour at the last election. Perhaps next time

.....or perhaps not.

^ but I can remember the chaos in the economy we are Mortgage brokers and it nearly took us under^

Global financial crisis? Nothing to do with Labour.

theworriedwell

Galaxy

With regard to the cervix quote, the quote you are arguing about is not the quote that was said.

Well it was said on here and it has been said before. It is insulting and othering and I think it is appropriate to point that out to people. I have a friend who had a breakdown after her op, we all had to be very careful what we said for several years after her op. I'm sure no one on here wants another woman to suffer even more than she has already so we should all be aware of that.

The quote, 'people with cervixes' actually came from, of all places, The Lancet. It's the avoidance of the word 'women' so as not to upset a certain lobby.

I'm really sorry if I upset anyone. I only posted it as a joke...

Anniel not even surgery can turn a man or male into a female or woman.

I listened to Keir Starmers speech which went on and on. Fir a leading Barrister he is a tad boring in delivery. I think he is a very principled man, but the divisions in the party are very obvious. I could never vote for ANY PARTY who denies that I am a woman. I have a cervix and was born with ovaries Fallopian tubes and a uterus. I am a woman and no man can ever be a woman without extensive surgery. Thinking you are a man or a woman is not sufficient fir me. The Trans group are tiny but they seem far too influential. Labour does not support WOMEN!

Galaxy

With regard to the cervix quote, the quote you are arguing about is not the quote that was said.

Well it was said on here and it has been said before. It is insulting and othering and I think it is appropriate to point that out to people. I have a friend who had a breakdown after her op, we all had to be very careful what we said for several years after her op. I'm sure no one on here wants another woman to suffer even more than she has already so we should all be aware of that.

With regard to the cervix quote, the quote you are arguing about is not the quote that was said.

MayBee70

Nanny state = caring state. imo

You may well be right MayBee unfortunately the electorate didn’t agree with Labour at the last election. Perhaps next time

PippaZ

rosie1959

In answer to your question Maybee I must admit I have limited experience of a labour government I have been eligible to vote for 43 years and Labour has only been in power for around 8 of those years
I do not wish to live in a nanny state and I prefer the Conservative ethos.
The economy in my opinion has been better under a Conservative government and will prosper despite Brexit
In the last election there was no way I would vote for Corbyn the man was a total liability who couldn't take a firm stand on Brexit which was his downfall

I prefer the Conservative ethos.

Do you realise that ethos is the Greek word for "character"? So let's look at the character you want to follow.

*Shambolic
*Scruffy in his dress
*careless in public and private life
*finding it impossible to govern by bluster
*prone to crises
*quite happy with cronyvirus
*surrounded by sleaze
*an entrenched belief that there is one rule for him and to hell with everyone else.

So, as the Conservatives voted him leader, we can assume he is the very epitome of their "ethos".

If, on the other hand, you meant you think the economy has been better under the Conservative ideology, then do feel free to explain that for us.

Well we are unlikely to agree on this one whether Boris Johnson is the very epitome of the Conservative party ethos could be debatable but he won a ruddy great landslide at the last election and I actually quite like him faults and all
Now I do have to remember the last time Labour were in power it was quite a while ago but I can remember the chaos in the economy we are Mortgage brokers and it nearly took us under
But if Labour are as good as they seem to be fairing on GN then I am sure they will have no problem what so ever winning the next election

JaneJudge

People like Jo Whiley's sister were also given automatic DNR orders under the coronavirus act, passed in parliament quickly. The disability news service is a good place to look re disability issues

I’ve just been listening to her talking about it in Simon Armitages blog ‘the poet laureate is in his garden shed’ which I’ve just discovered.