Look at Me

The murder of Sarah is utterly abhorrent. She was murdered by a police officer. There is no way men can be blamed. This murder is down to the total failure of the police force. My husband and I love to enjoy a walk in the evening. Through the summer we have walked through our local park. Too dark now. We walk around our area sticking to the residential street. It is a sad reflection of our times. Men and women need to be equally careful as to where they walk and go when it is dark.

I think that most offences like this one are not one offs, there will have been a history of less serious offences. Men who commit indecent exposure, if not dealt with properly, quite often go on to more and more serious crimes. The fact that Couzens was known as The Rapist should have raised red flags to all the other officers where he worked, including senior officers. He should have been 'outed' by his colleagues. There is no excuse for simply doing nothing. Look at Jimmy Saville and how many children his behaviour affected because nobody had the 'balls' to say something.

Am sure it’s worked for many women and girls Galaxy
Not crossing parks on their own after dark, avoiding walking in lonely places ( with or without a dog) not tottering about the streets half drunk on their own, not leaving windows wide open or doors unlocked and unbolted at night etc.All totally sensible precautions.We will never know how many rapes and deaths were prevented by these things and as I commented earlier a woman can still be unlucky if meeting a monster when doing something not at all risky( like poor Sarah) although that was a very unusual case.

Saying that women need to be careful outdoors, especially after dark applies more so to women in relationships with men. Most female victims are attacked and murdered in their own homes.
Men have to be responsible for their behaviour. The ‘she provoked him’ defence has been so frequently used and needs ditching.
The publicity around Me Too and the level of risk posed to women may help some women to know more about the red flags. To quote mumsnet, some women need to LTB before things get worse

Domestic abuse and killing by a partner/husband/ son / relative is completely different and there is nothing a woman can do to prevent it.

In what way has that advice worked lemongrove.

lemongrove

In a perfect world ( the Garden Of Eden?) all men would be respectful of women, have no mental health problems, and no anger issues, and women could go about wearing bikinis if they so chose... however, we all know the reality of this world.
The best we can hope for is that the police do their level best to investigate properly when a crime against a woman happens, and to make sure that police officers are thoroughly
vetted before being accepted for training and any offences committed by them are taken seriously.
As for women, it makes sense to be careful in their everyday lives, particularly so after dark and to think about what they are wearing.That’s all they can do, and even then they can run into a monster if unlucky.
Men in general can help by not finding ‘iffy’ behaviour amusing, or pretending to.
After that, I can’t see what any man or woman can do.

Am re-posting my comments as some words have been taken out of context.
If anyone on here doesn’t think that women need to be careful
In their everyday lives, particularly so after dark then they are
Being very foolhardy.

galaxy exactly!

Nothing works save for perhaps behaving as the Taliban would have us behave and never leave the house without a male escort.

That doesn’t stop all the crime committed in the domestic sphere though does it?

And the 'be careful' is magical thinking, it's way of pretending that it cant possibly happen to them or those they love. In a way it's understandable but it doesnt work. Take a taxi (maybe not), get help from a policeman (maybe not), walk confidently (I dont want women who are less confident to be raped instead of me and that's what people mean), this type of advice has been floating around my whole life, and women have curtailed their movements even if they disagree with the advice, if it was going to work you would think we might have noticed it by now.

Sarah wasn’t wearing anything remotely revealing just everyday clothes and a beanie hat fgs. It was dark but a busy well lit main road in a big city. Don’t blame the victim or excuse men. Bringing up unprovable evolutionary theories as excuses for male behaviour is ridiculous. Any unacceptable behaviour towards women should be called out, challenged by all, not accepted as normal.

At last some posts that hearten me. I had begun to despair at the way posters were emphasising men in the issue and refusing to focus on women.

As for women, it makes sense to be careful in their everyday lives, particularly so after dark and to think about what they are wearing.

This statement makes me despair. Even when women are ‘careful’ in their everyday lives they still get murdered. Bethan Bell on the BBC has an excellent article about this. www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-london-58665603?fbclid=IwAR3d-ysc3NjvX0ekcXVD6hKoVfbIM0K-SvQYRmmvHvrvVlvisBnm9-iOqNM

The very fact much of this thread is concerned about men is a sign that it’s a man’s world. Until women are centrally placed, they will continue to be assuaged, raped and murdered. Our daughters, our granddaughters, ourselves, even.

I think she was hiding from me when she saw my car but she looked vulnerable. I think I will just keep an eye on things and mention it to the support staff too and other mum. She was just so young, it just wasn't right (from a Mum perspective too iykwim)

All good men need to stand up against violence against women. Without that happening, nothing will change.

And let's be honest, most men DON'T stand up in public and do this. They aren't violent towards women themselves, but they do ignore questionable behaviour in other men.

I once watched a whole table full of men (nice men) sit in silence while a woman confronted once of them about a rape joke he'd made. They should have spoken up. "Yeah Dave. Not funny."

Do you think she was hiding from police or hiding because she was threatened. I think you should report the punters but that's easy for me to say on the internet. Iam64 probably has more useful advice.

should i keep a diary?

Thanks - I’d been feeling dispirited and irritated but when I got banished, found I missed discussions like this one. Working with women who have faced, are living with domestic abuse, or are selling their bodies to pay for drugs, have lived such demoralising lives doesn’t support the argument that sex work is a positive choice (for the majority)

Without sounding like a love in it's so great to have you back Iam64, dont let GNHQ lock you out again

Galaxy

I think we look at what other countries have done, not Germany! but places where they have criminalised the punters rather than the women. And challenge the arses who call it sex work.

Well said Galaxy.

I dont know urmstongran, and if I dont know possibly the witnesses didnt know. And if that's the policy it needs to be widely publicised.

I think we look at what other countries have done, not Germany! but places where they have criminalised the punters rather than the women. And challenge the arses who call it sex work.

Galaxy

Well I am involved in a number of campaigns in relation to prostitution and the rough sex issue, so I am not sure how defeated I am, I quite like dealing in reality though and acknowledging that many people with public platforms think that buying and selling women is a great thing is important to acknowledge.

what are we to though galaxy? there is a brothel on the corner of my dd's street and i saw a prostitute hiding behind a hedge Tuesday I am not sure anyone else has noticed and I think I have only noticed because I do not live there and was there v early in the day

Another thread about the dangers of physical and sexual violence women face, that quickly moves focus on to the needs of men. Not all men are violent predators but the vast majority of violent predators are men. I’ve copied some information :-

BBC news website - 12.03.21. Updated on 24.09.21

‘in the year to March 2020, 207 women were killed in GB. This means about one in for killings were of women”
‘ research from the Femicide Census, an organisation that collects information on men’s violence against women - calculates that across the UK 1,425 women were killed by men in the 10 years to 2018. That is about one killing every 3 days”

More than nine out of 10 killers were men. About 57% 0f female victims were killed by someone they knew, most commonly a partner or ex partner. This compares with 39% of men. More than 70% of women were killed in their own home - twice the figure for men.

In the year ending March 2020, the office for National statistics
Estimated that 4.9 million women had been victims of sexual assault in their lives. This included 1.4 million who had been raped or faced attempted rape.
About 989 men had experienced sexual assault including 87,000 victims of rape or attempted rape.
In total, 98.5% of the rapists were identified as men. ‘

The Guardian on 13.02.20 reports a 10% increase in the number of female homicide victims in 2018-19. Police forces nationally reported increases in domestic abuse by men towards women and children during lockdown.

Why is it that any discussion on gransnet about this horrific situation seems swiftly to have comments stressing not all men are dangerous. Of course they aren’t but how do we protect ourselves and our children from the men who are.

I seriously doubt it Galaxy - especially one male officer arresting a female. Perhaps someone could comment on this? It doesn’t seem right to me.

Just heard the Labour MP Harriet Hartman live on SKY news calling for the resignation of Cressida Dick. The Met Police need root and branch evaluation of practice. This happened under her watch. She is not the person to drive forward with new practice.

Well said.

Well I am involved in a number of campaigns in relation to prostitution and the rough sex issue, so I am not sure how defeated I am, I quite like dealing in reality though and acknowledging that many people with public platforms think that buying and selling women is a great thing is important to acknowledge.