Police that can’t be trusted

M0nica

The big problem is that the police are still predominantly white men, with all the societal attitudes that go with that.

Police services should reflect the areas they serve. What is needed is a far more diverse police force where 40% plus are women and in London a similar number should come from other ethnic groups. Outside London the ethnic mix could be lower.

The vetting procedure should be far more stringent and any officer suspected of a crime should immediately be suspended on full pay, not just put in a back office job until he is charged or when exonerated , returns to front line work.

When my granddaughter's fiance applied for the Police a year ago he was turned down because as a white male he didn't fit their demographic!

SueDonim

Fennel’s post says that the responsibilities the police have are unrealistic.

I read that differently to you, the quote is very non specific but you have made it specific to "abuse of power" which I don't think was the intention.

The big problem is that the police are still predominantly white men, with all the societal attitudes that go with that.

Police services should reflect the areas they serve. What is needed is a far more diverse police force where 40% plus are women and in London a similar number should come from other ethnic groups. Outside London the ethnic mix could be lower.

The vetting procedure should be far more stringent and any officer suspected of a crime should immediately be suspended on full pay, not just put in a back office job until he is charged or when exonerated , returns to front line work.

when in reality they are as disgusted by his actions as everyone else
Oldwoman but they weren’t were they, they knew he had form and was a pervert but they ignored it.

Amberspyglass No where in the link you mention is there any mention of pursuing criminals - you know the people I mean, those that go out murdering, stealing, raping, abusing, cheating, scamming, beating up,intimidating. Who will carry out the long slow and detailed investigations that have caught at least half a dozen serial rapists, serial murderers and gangsters and extortioners.

You know, proper real crime

But how many corrupt officers do there need to be before we accept that the problem is structural and that the structure may need to be taken down and rebuilt?

Fennel’s post says that the responsibilities the police have are unrealistic.

SueDonim

Huh? Expecting police not to abuse their position of power is unrealistic?

I don't think anyone has said that, can you point me to the post, please? I absolutely think it is wrong for anyone to abuse a position of power, whether that be a member of the police force, a teacher, nurse or doctor, MP or anyone. However, one person or indeed several people within an organisation abusing their power does not make the whole organisation corrupt or abusive but that doesn't mean that there aren't lessons to be learned.

Huh? Expecting police not to abuse their position of power is unrealistic?

I can only say - I'm so glad oldest son didn't join the police force as he was encouraged to do in the 80s.
Their responsibilities and public expectations of their behaviour have become unrealistic.
imo they are our physical guardians - not our moral guardians

A few bad apples doesn’t mean the whole force is rotting from the top down either.

But if the bad apples aren’t removed very quickly, the entire barrel will be tainted.

Good post foxie48. I’ve felt slightly conflicted about Cressida Dick because it’s generally accepted figure heads fall on their sword when things go so badly wrong. The irony that the first female met cc should be sacrificed because of the actions of men hasn’t escaped me.
Anti police feelings aren’t new. I can only repeat in 40 years of working alongside, training officers etc, I’ve met so many excellent officers.

Cressida Dick has announced an independent review of the behaviour, leadership, training and culture of the MET. fwiw I think that is the way forward. When I read comments on here suggesting defunding etc I feel some despair. I think policing has changed for the better since the 80's, it can, of course, continue to improve, but why would intelligent committed ambitious young people aspire to be in the police with all this negativity. As I type this I hear a nurse has been charged with murdering 18 babies. there's been several cases of nurses and doctors murdering their patients but I don't hear the same reaction. Can someone explain why?

AmberSpyglass

But the police force as an institution is broken. Fundamentally. A few good apples doesn’t mean the whole barrel isn’t rotting from the top down.

A few bad apples doesn’t mean the whole force is rotting from the top down either.

Yes I read it MaizieD but it didn’t change my view. Our police form states it’s aim to police by consent - thst goes deeply into the psyche of the officers I worked with

Iam64

I’m in no way a supporter of defunding the police. The USA is totally different in that a large part of police funding goes on supplying military style arms.
We need to re-fund the police, drug/alcohol/children’s services especially family centres, the criminal justice system including probation, that’s a minimum start.
The government is refusing a McPhearson type public enquiry. I’d like to see immediate public, judge led investigation into the issues Couzens raises, Ie vetting, supervision, culture. I’ve jus read on this thread that other officers were with him on one of the McDonald’s exposure incident. Why aren’t they suspended and dismissed?

Did you read the article that AmberSpyglass linked to? It wasn't really, IMO, about completely defunding..

But the police force as an institution is broken. Fundamentally. A few good apples doesn’t mean the whole barrel isn’t rotting from the top down.

Iam64

I’m in no way a supporter of defunding the police. The USA is totally different in that a large part of police funding goes on supplying military style arms.
We need to re-fund the police, drug/alcohol/children’s services especially family centres, the criminal justice system including probation, that’s a minimum start.
The government is refusing a McPhearson type public enquiry. I’d like to see immediate public, judge led investigation into the issues Couzens raises, Ie vetting, supervision, culture. I’ve jus read on this thread that other officers were with him on one of the McDonald’s exposure incident. Why aren’t they suspended and dismissed?

Agree with everything you said.

I’m in no way a supporter of defunding the police. The USA is totally different in that a large part of police funding goes on supplying military style arms.
We need to re-fund the police, drug/alcohol/children’s services especially family centres, the criminal justice system including probation, that’s a minimum start.
The government is refusing a McPhearson type public enquiry. I’d like to see immediate public, judge led investigation into the issues Couzens raises, Ie vetting, supervision, culture. I’ve jus read on this thread that other officers were with him on one of the McDonald’s exposure incident. Why aren’t they suspended and dismissed?

AmberSpyglass

We probably won’t get 100% abolition, but a massive refocus - including funding - on tackling the issues around it would make a huge difference.

I don't think it should be called 'defunding', though. I very much agree that there should be a reallocation (or even just extra funding) of funding to areas which would make a difference. I think the police (and teachers) are expected to deal with many problems for which they have no training, and, from talking to them, they are hugely frustrated by the fact that there are not enough effective services to which they can refer people.

But it is such a political decision, isn't it? Would, for example, decriminalising drugs be a politically popular move?

Anyway, nothing will happen under our current Home Secretary. Punishment is her forte...

We probably won’t get 100% abolition, but a massive refocus - including funding - on tackling the issues around it would make a huge difference.

25Avalon

I don’t see the absolute defunding and abolition working tbh, but I can see that some of the ideas make sense. There will still, however be crimes such as burglary, fraud, murder etc for which some kind of police force is necessary. Maybe it is laws that needs to be changed. Whilst there are laws the police are supposed to enforce them, that is the reason for their existence.

I actually agree with you, Avalon

AuntieEleanorsCat

Time was, the head of the Met would be sacked for this kind of mess. Under Johnson, no one is accountable.

I cannot stop thinking of that poor young woman and what she went through. Couzens ought to have been suspended and investigated at the VERY LEAST. This was “allowed” to happen.

You are quite right. The 2 police officers with Couzens when he exposed himself to female staff at McDonald's ought to have been reported him to their superiors and Couzens immediately stripped of his warrant card, handcuffs etc and suspended pending an inquiry. Instead those 2 officers, seemingly treated it as a bit of a laugh. 'There goes Wayne again, he's such a lad'. Nothing done followed by the most awful tragedy. There are 16 officers under investigation at the moment over incidents relating to Couzens. I was horrified to read that at least 2 of them are still at work!!!

I don’t see the absolute defunding and abolition working tbh, but I can see that some of the ideas make sense. There will still, however be crimes such as burglary, fraud, murder etc for which some kind of police force is necessary. Maybe it is laws that needs to be changed. Whilst there are laws the police are supposed to enforce them, that is the reason for their existence.

Hardly - luckily there’s a lot of smart people actually doing the work on it:

www.vice.com/en/article/qj4k4x/what-would-happen-if-we-defunded-police-in-the-uk