Feeling politically homeless (new thread)

There was some hesitation about mask wearing early on in the pandemic but otherwise I think the messages have been clear and the vaccination programme good.

I agree Callistemon. There have been no lies or flanneling about Covid in Wales throughout the whole pandemic. I like an honest Government.

Yes, really.

'^The Labour Government in Wales seems to have handled the pandemic better than elsewhere too.'^

Really?

The Labour party in Scotland in cohorts WITH the unions ..who financed the court case ..fought AGAINST equal pay for women in Glasgow,The case ran for years and cost millions

I do remember that. paddyanne and thought it was truly astonishing, against what the LP should stand for.

HS2 has no impact or advantage to me but I know many people who are against it (including us) and have friends who live on the route; they won't lose their home but it will impact adversely on their lives.

The Labour Government in Wales seems to have handled the pandemic better than elsewhere too.

Thank you for answering M0nica

Wrong on all counts.

Never voted Labour in my life. Might do if they get their act together in Scotland, but that's looking unlikely.

Enjoy your break.

I assume you are a member, or at least a supporter of the labour party, possibly amember of the Corbyn sect rather than the Stramer set.

I am going away for a couple of days so will not be back on GN until Saturday.

BTW M0nica - who do you think my party is?

M0nica What you have written is so diametrically opposite to anything I have explained at 9:49 this morning, that I'm clearly not getting though. My fault, I expect.

Do not accuse me of objecting to democracy and being upset about it. That's pathetic, really. As for "we do not blame anybody..." I'd appreciate it as well if you didn't address me like you were a nursery teacher and I was stroppy 3 years old.

They have every right to do so, to think that your party is something they would do anything to avoid having in government, to accept and support another party whose views they do support and approve of. If you and those who think like you are upset about this then tough. This is how democracy works.

Nobody is denying that, MOnica. We don't have to 'respect' them though.

I am sorry Alegrias we do not blame anybody, just because they voted for a party that you do not approve of.

They have every right to do so, to think that your party is something they would do anything to avoid having in government, to accept and support another party whose views they do support and approve of. If you and those who think like you are upset about this then tough. This is how democracy works.

I did say that we may have a chance of seeing another Labour Government once Scotland gets independence.

How does this work then? Seeing as how most people think the opposite, that Labour will never get in again unless they can rely on the Scottish seats?

Willing to be educated.

There is no chance in hell of Scotland voting either labour or tory in the forseeable future and certainly not to "save" England from itself .Thats up to you!

You forget Wales and Northern Ireland, paddyanne.
I don't live in England.

I did say that we may have a chance of seeing another Labour Government once Scotland gets independence.
I used to think it was the wrong thing but now I am all for it.

The Labour party in Scotland in cohorts WITH the unions ..who financed the court case ..fought AGAINST equal pay for women in Glasgow,The case ran for years and cost millions ,Now WHY would anyone vote for a party that's against women being paid the same as men .It only took the new SNP council weeks to sort it ,drop the case and give compensation to the workers affected .Thats the same SNP who support young families with a top up of £10 a week for under 6 year olds have taken over carparks at hospitals so folk dont have to pay when they are ill or visiting their ill relatives,mitigate the bedroom tax to the tune of millions every year and much much more .THATS why we dont vote Tory ,we want and have a far more left leaning governmnet who WE VOTE FOR .Isn't that what democracy is? I'm very sorry for my family in England but "England is a foreign land to me" and its up to the people there to get a decent government and quite frankly they dont have much choice .Sadly we cant do everything we want while shackled to the union ,we'd much rather have complete control of our own finances.We really dont want to keep paying for things we neither need nor want,like HS2 ,or London Crossrail or any of Bojo's vanity projects . There is no chance in hell of Scotland voting either labour or tory in the forseeable future and certainly not to "save" England from itself .Thats up to you!

Romola wasn't suggesting that the objective was for everyone else but the Tories to stand aside so that Labour win the next election.

Romola

Just someone else saying: please, all opposition parties i.e. Labour, Lib Dems and Greens including the SNP, you MUST make electoral pacts so that, in the next general election, the candidate most likely to win and/or defeat the Tory is the ONLY opposition.
Otherwise the opposition votes are split and the Conservatives will be in power until the end of time.
Once the so-called progressive opposition is in power, it should bring in a form of proportional representation (personally I like the German version) and then it can call another election which will be run by PR.

Answering your post, Romola, seems to have opened a can of worms!

Whatever happened to that traditional Labour stronghold which provided so many good Scottish MPs and PMs too?

I know that they were losing seats before 2016, but I suspect that the fact that Labour was complicit with Brexit right from just after the referendum, while Scotland mostly voted to Remain, cannot have helped the LP in Scotland

act together

Just a point of order; no party in Scotland needs to stand aside to make sure the Tories don't get in here. They don't get in here in reasonable numbers because so few people, proportionately, want them to win.

If what you want is for Labour to be more successful in Scotland, then maybe best to have a word with Labour instead of blaming parties who have got their at together.

M0nica

I haven't posted anything mentioning the SNP. Anyway that is talking about a political party, not its voters.

That was me and yes, it was about a political party not its voters although my post was in answer to, I think, Romola who suggested that some parties stand aside to give Labour a chance of beating the Tories in the next GE. 40+ Scottish seats would make a huge difference; a swing back in traditional English Labour constituencies who last time voted Tory would ensure that.

Whatever happened to that traditional Labour stronghold which provided so many good Scottish MPs and PMs too?
It's all very sad.

I was really very angry last night at being accused of patronising people when that was far removed from both my post and its meaning.

A poster said that the continued Tory success was due to the parallel success of the SNP in Scotland, implying that if only the SNP didn’t exist, or was weaker, people would be voting Labour and the Tories wouldn’t be in power. As I pointed out, if every seat in Scotland went Labour, the Tory majority in Westminster would still be around 30 seats. So I find it completely unacceptable to “blame” the success of a particular political party for the dominance of the Tories. (And “blame” was the word used.)

Whether you think the SNP are numpties or not, whether you agree with their policies or not, people vote for them and that’s why they are successful.

So if not the SNP, who do we “blame” for the continued success of the Tories, if “blame” should be apportioned? I would have thought it clear that the people to “blame” for the Tories being in power was the people who voted Tory. I thought someone might pull me up for spouting a truism, but no, apparently stating the obvious is patronising. Voting Tory is an honourable position. Voting Tory because you agree with Tory values is healthy because we need a balanced electoral outcome. Voting Tory because you believe what is written on the side of a bus, and think Johnson is a good PM, deserves to be highlighted as muddled thinking. Continuing to think that they are doing a good job is beyond comprehension.

So, before accusing people of being patronising, or jumping on any bandwagons that suit your preconceptions about other people, consider what is actually being said and admit that sometimes, you can be wrong.

Finally, I really don’t need anybody to tell me that being angry is not good for my mental health, that I should let it go and calm down. If that happens, we can have another discussion about being patronising.

M0nica

I haven't posted anything mentioning the SNP. Anyway that is talking about a political party, not its voters.

It isn't patronising to suggest that someone could make themselves more aware of the facts rather than thinking that an opinion must be equal to something provable.

that is exactly what I find distasteful. You are saying that if others thought as much as you do they would espouse your opinions (because they are morally superior?). Not patronising? What could be more so.

That quote isn't from one of my posts.

I think respecting the constitution and the way parties are voted into power (which I do up to a point) as well as accepting the decision, which I always do because it is based on fairness and transparency, is very different to saying one should respect those people who voted for what I consider to be knowingly a liar, moral vacuum and known incompetent to the post.

I prefer a better calibre of politician, at the very least someone who wasn’t sacked on more than one occasion for lying. I wouldn’t employ someone like Johnson, and so certainly have an opinion of those who appear happy to do so.

I haven't posted anything mentioning the SNP. Anyway that is talking about a political party, not its voters.

It isn't patronising to suggest that someone could make themselves more aware of the facts rather than thinking that an opinion must be equal to something provable.

that is exactly what I find distasteful. You are saying that if others thought as much as you do they would espouse your opinions (because they are morally superior?). Not patronising? What could be more so.

If there was an election tomorrow I think your current government would be returned again, albeit with a smaller majority. It’s how people are, they like what they know, especially in times of stress. I think the same applies here, too though not 100% on that because our PM is MIA.