Rees Mogg has a "conversation&q uot; with unemployed youth worker

Excellent posts GA and Luckygirl. Heartbreaking

Put your hand on your heart you Tory supporters and tell me that you think JR-M has the vaguest clue that this is what is going on.

If he doesn't know it's because he is deliberately looking the other way while saying platitudes.

Luckygirl me too! It’s awful for the clients, but unless you’ve done the job it’s difficult to explain how emotionally draining it is for people who are in the ‘supporting’ role.

I have a young male client with a brain injury similar to the situation you’ve described and it is truly demoralising when, after spending months of building him up we then have to emphasise and focus on all the things he can no longer do or excel at.

He had a PIP telephone Tribunal during lockdown and we won the case, but almost a year on he is still dealing with the severe depression that was caused by him having to face, once again, the limitations his injury have placed upon him.

Some days I weep, literally, because of the senselessness of it all. The system really is perverse and cruel.

As a asocial worker for many years I cannot begin to tell you how many of these pernicious forms I have filled in.

Imagine this scenario: your beautiful only teenage DD with the world at her feet has suffered a head injury and will never lead a normal life again - she cannot walk normally, cannot speak |(and has to use a lightwriter) and her memory is shot to pieces. There is no way she can pursue her chosen athletic career that she has been aiming for her whole life; she is handicapped in the dating scene and fears she will never find a partner; she is depressed and having suicidal thoughts.

So ....what do I have to do to "help" her to have sufficient income to live? I have to fill in at least 50 pages in which she (and her poor distraught parents) have to list over and over again all the things she CANNOT do - for those of you who have never seen these forms they are repetitive beyond endurance.

And I had spent several months trying to concentrate on what she CAN do.

Then there were SSD assessments by the score - more sadness for the parents, who have to tell me over and over again how they cannot care for her as it is too physically demanding for them, something that they are very distressed about. But SS will not help unless this form is filled in and SIGNED by the parents.

After that particular visit I resigned my job after 25+ years in social work - I simply could not do it any more.

When I started, we could actually help people - not any more.

Put your hand on your heart you Tory supporters and tell me that you think JR-M has the vaguest clue that this is what is going on.

Please, if you really want to understand the issues around Personal Independence Payments (PIP) take a look at the application form here:

www.turn2us.org.uk/T2UWebsite/media/Images/Situations/Migrant/PIP2-form-booklet-PrintOnly-220121-(1).pdf

You will see that it consists of fifty pages and that supplemental evidence of disability is also required. Evidence from a GP or hospital Consultant is given considerably less weight than that of the PIP assessor who, as a complete stranger, spends only one or two hours with the person being assessed.

I had a client referred to me who was 55 years old. He has been learning disabled for his whole life, is illiterate and has no paid support because government cuts have decimated the funding for LD Support Workers. He received the form and got help from a neighbour to fill it in. He had to see an assessor who decided that the disability he’d been born with is non-existent; he was awarded zero points for disability. The evidence of several hospital consultants, GPs, past social workers, and SEN schoolteachers was ignored. The assessor, I discovered afterwards, had previously been an ambulance driver who had no other medical training or experience.

A ‘Mandatory Reconsideration’ was requested and the case manager confirmed the assessors findings. This was the point at which I became involved and I took the case to Tribunal where the case was contested by a lawyer for the DWP. Three expert judges examined the evidence I supplied and found in favour of my client, awarding him 28 points.

The financial cost of this case was exorbitant, but the mental anguish to my client was, and still is, incalculable. This is not a one-off situation either; I took another almost identical case to Tribunal. Both of these learning disabled clients will have to apply for PIP again in the near future, filling in the same form, having another assessment - and most likely having to go through another Tribunal hearing if they don’t have professional help with early stages of the process.

Some people kill themselves rather than go through this again. Others die while awaiting the results. Many, many people are traumatised by the process. I have every sympathy with the anger expressed by the man who accosted JRM - I feel it too. The treatment of many British disabled people is inhumane at best and deeply cruel at worst.

Saetana

If someone who should get PIP/ESA awarded and then does not - please please make sure you appeal! The appeal panel are neutral, they do not represent either the DWP or the claimant, and one of them will be a doctor. I had to do this with my husband's first claim for ESA on grounds of sickness/disability and we won our case easily on appeal. Ironically we had no problems whatsoever with his PIP claim - the assessor could tell how out of breath he was getting just moving to the examination table. Now waiting for next assessment as he should get full mobility this time. Most of you are just using this thread to bash the Conservatives again - quelle surprise on Gransnet!

Saetana, this is useful and interesting information. Hopefully we will eventually get a "Benefits" board where such experience can help others.

However, I think people making political comments on a political thread is not suprising - and I am not being sarcastic.

We actually want his next PIP assessment - he got awarded the social care bit last time but his mobility is much worse now so we should get the rest of it. To be fair, his last ESA appointment was fantastic - they even paid for us a cab home as he was coughing so much, that does not gel with our previous experience. PIP assessment went better than expected as well. I will repeat a piece of advice we got from Citizens Advice when we were appealing his first ESA claim - make sure you tell them about the worst days with your condition, not the best ones. Unfortunately its necessary to "game" the system to a degree - there is a lot of information on disability websites that will take you through exactly what you need to do, depending on which sickness/disability is being claimed for. I have the 160 page document that is used to train assessors - it was really helpful - arm yourself with knowledge, get help with filling out forms if you really can't do it yourself, and most importantly be persistent!

He is not in the real world and completely out of touch, how can a man who lives the way he does with all his wealth have any idea on what it’s like to live on a such a low wage you have to be grateful for food banks, how does he know what it’s like to be with a disabled person caring for them. And lastly has he any idea how humiliating it feels to go through telling people what you can’t do., time and time again and living with the fear about how you will manage with no money. Also many people I have known and helped with disabilities do shout, it’s out of frustration and a touch of anger that a person just doesn’t understand their point of view. Life is a struggle but not for this arrogant man.

So your husband had to appeal the ESA decision and now your husband is being subjected to yet another assessment for PIP even though he cannot breathe? Sounds like the process is working well for you

If someone who should get PIP/ESA awarded and then does not - please please make sure you appeal! The appeal panel are neutral, they do not represent either the DWP or the claimant, and one of them will be a doctor. I had to do this with my husband's first claim for ESA on grounds of sickness/disability and we won our case easily on appeal. Ironically we had no problems whatsoever with his PIP claim - the assessor could tell how out of breath he was getting just moving to the examination table. Now waiting for next assessment as he should get full mobility this time. Most of you are just using this thread to bash the Conservatives again - quelle surprise on Gransnet!

He is not a nice man,

Why is that not apparent to everyone?:

varian, if you scroll back on this thread people think he is a nice man. So if he is a nice man and good politician he shoudl follow this up, surely?

My faith is as little as yours

I was assessed for my need for the mobility component of PIPS just before the start of the pandemic. The report , by the nurse who did the assessment, claimed that , after lengthy observations and a thorough examination , there appeared to be nothing wrong with me . Having had polio as a baby and undergone extensive and painful surgery throughout my life as well as splints, special shoes and years of physio, I was surprised to find that a cure had been found - and all in the space of a 20 minute consultation. Luckily, someone looked at it again, rang me , apologised and reinstated my PIPS but the whole experience left me sad and disheartened . Despite my disability, I always worked and felt , until then, that I was a valued member of society. It took me a long time to get over what happened. BJ and his cronies should be ashamed.

Such a nice man ????

Rees Mogg is one of the worst of the current dreadful politicians who have ceased power on the basis of a minority vote.

See, how can anyone like that fail a PIP assessment? It just does not make sense

Hopefully now JRM is on the case and he is such a nice man, all these problems will be sorted out. Capita sounds like its contract needs to be looked at too as it sounds a massive waste of money that could be spent of youth services instead.

We all have to prove our disabilities, we have to go into graphic detail about issues like going to the loo, admit to having very basic problems and are questioned about such personal issues that I ended up in tears and feeling a total failure because I have to claim these benefits in the first place. And in a couple of years I have to start all over again and claim again.

I'm fortunate in that I'm in receipt of ESA (a benefit paid because I can't work anymore), and PIP, but I know many who are severely disabled, but have failed to be awarded any disability benefits.

To give you an example, I know a lady in her 60's who has cerebral palsy, is partially sighted, is wheelchair dependent, and needs a head brace to prevent breathing problems, she has a bag for bladder and bowel, is PEG fed, and needs dialysis. On top of this, she has fybromyalgia, and arthritis, and to top of it has seizures.

However she is not considered unable to work (she would love to work but not easy to find a job with all these disabilities), and failed her PIP assessment. Effectively she is not considered disabled or ill enough to be entitled to any help.

Chestnut

Exactly! Happened all over the UK. What more can be said!

I used to work for the Youth Service in the 1980's so some things never change. It has always been vulnerable and the first to go when there is a county overspend.

The sound on this link works:

www.youtube.com/watch?v=yWqSaO576RA

BTW, what sort of thing are you thinking of when you say central govt. expectations are too high?

Of what they expect local governments to provide in the way of public services whilst at the same time restricting their budgets.

I like the idea of local government responding to local needs
That's true as long as more is not expected without the funding being provided.

And yes, Maisie that's my point. I obviously wasn't clear when I said:

This works because the effects of cuts are delayed. This time however they have caught up with the government as they have been "responsible" for too long

GillT57 - that's exactly what I meant.
Much better put. I definitely agree.

Due to our political system, the party which cuts the support systems is rarely the one in power when.the long term damage arrives 10 or 15 years later.

As the tories have been cutting like mad for the last 10 years, don't you think the effects are pretty clear by now. GillT57

Of course, the party now in power is determinedly ignoring the fact that the previous 10 years have a great deal to do with the tories...

I think there is too much meddling by central government regarding local government finances.

I agree. But it's a tendency of central government to want to take control to the centre. Thatcher was rather keen on this.

I think also that the expectations put on to local government by central government are too high

Traditionally local government had far more responsibility for just about all services, transport, water, electricity, health, public health etc. etc. Many of them have been absorbed by the centre (see above...) I like the idea of local government responding to local needs. Central 'command' can be slow or unresponsive. But there is the problem of financing...

BTW, what sort of thing are you thinking of when you say central govt. expectations are too high?

Sadly, these cuts are all very short sighted. Even if one takes an accounting view of the provision of services and ignore the welfare, social and emotional implications of cutting youth services or Surestart, quite frankly they are cheaper for the taxpayer than the longer term effects of teenage delinquency, petty crime, lack of educational achievement. Due to our political system, the party which cuts the support systems is rarely the one in power when.the long term damage arrives 10 or 15 years later.

1. central government cuts to the local government budgets inevitably do SO much damage because they can then only (barely) deliver "core" services.

I think there is too much meddling by central government regarding local government finances.
I think also that the expectations put on to local government by central government are too high - more of the welfare and core services should be funded by central, not local, government.