Many of us were dubious about the Oven Ready best ever deal ..

Gammon?

As a matter of interest- a genuine question- apart from whisky from Scotland, what produce would EU 27 not be able to provide for each other?

Fruit? no
Veg? no
Meat? no
Cereal? no
Wine? no
cars? no
medicines? no
chemicals? no
cheese? no ....

I honestly can't think of a single thing.

Urmstongran

Unless of course we slap tariffs on .... only in retaliation of course.

and who will suffer most in such cases! 27 countries who can import/export to and from each other and provide more or less for 99.9999 of their own needs- bar a bit of whisky.

Or the one country isolated in the sea?

There are big tariffs on small items being delivered to people in the EU from U.K. - there is of course customs duty but the carriers are also slapping their own charges on top before delivering. Even small gifts are being charged which is not how it was between the U.K. and European countries before the EU.

So simple!!!

Unless of course we slap tariffs on .... only in retaliation of course.

In percentage terms, the amount that we import from the EU is far more that the amount they import from us.

This was obvious, and was pointed out before the fraudulent referendum of 2016, but the right wing media kept saying "they export more to us than we do to them and so we have the upper hand in negotiations"

And their simple minded readers believed that we would have the upper hand.

27 to 1 is not good odds whatever way you look at it.

It is certainly not what you meant! Each EU country exports and imports of their own accord, what they need or want, or produce... It is just that it is so so easy and practical, no red tape, and a garanteed of same or similar standards.

MaizieD

Urmstongran

Oh I don’t know varian - EU actually sells far more to us than the other way round.

Has it never occurred to you, Ug, that the total of imports from twentyseven countries to the UK might just be a tad higher than the amount that the UK can export to 27 countries?

Isn’t that what I said?
?

That YouGov survey is utterly shocking Kali2

I just cannot imagine the distorted values of grandparents who would willfully inflict such damage on the lives of their children and grandchildren.

The only possible explanation is long-term brainwashing by The Daily Mail, The Express, The Telegraph, The Sun and the rest of the right wing media.

Kali2 And for what? Benefits that may accrue when most of us will belong gone. 50 years didn't JRM say? And still no one has come on here to tell us about any benefits so far obtained let alone any future benefits.

This makes me so ashamed about my selfish, horrible generation. I am so happy thought that I can look my children, grand-children and younger friends straight in the eye - and say I DID NOT VOTE FOR THIS. In fact proud I don't have to tell them, they know.

Brexit: Majority of older Leave voters say significant economic damage is 'price worth paying', finds YouGov

71 per cent of over-65s would accept a big economic hit – and half are willing for family members to lose their jobs

OH I think they did - but CHOSE deliberately, to sign knowing full well they had NO intention to abide by it. Much worse.

Don’t expect them to read it properly- they obviously didn’t read the last one.

Frost has a revised deal. The EU have the revised plan, but no one in the U.K. parliament has seen it..

Urmstongran

Oh I don’t know varian - EU actually sells far more to us than the other way round.

Has it never occurred to you, Ug, that the total of imports from twentyseven countries to the UK might just be a tad higher than the amount that the UK can export to 27 countries?

This is related to the OP - Fintan O'Toole writing in the Observer. Apparently business people in N Ireland were quite happy with the EU's plans but Johnson and Frost brought up the ECJ which the businesses aren't worried about.

Here's a link. It's rather long but interesting.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/oct/17/facing-chaos-and-needing-a-scapegoat-the-tories-seek-endless-fight-with-europe

Urmstongran

Oh I don’t know varian - EU actually sells far more to us than the other way round.

We want/need products/produce from the EU. They don't need very much from us. As someone who likes to eat seasonally - asparagus from mid April to early June - I'm always amazed at it being available at Christmas, along with strawberries and tomatoes. Those foods aren't produced in the UK for winter consumption, with the exception perhaps of the home counties farmer who has enormous poly tunnels producing year round crops. But, he can't grow enough because he doesn't have the skilled workers. Everyone will have to rely on tins and frozen versions.

So - imports of fresh stuff needed from the EU.

Before anyone trumpets about the trade deal with New Zealand- the government estimates this will have zero impact on U.K. growth , NZ farmers will benefit to the detriment of U.K. farmers ( this is the opinion of farmers so they obviously know nothing) .

Urmstongran

I don’t believe the reputation of the UK has been damaged. In fact I think we’re shaping up. Our negotiations are more robust and the EU is responding more amiably.

Have you changed your mind yet?

There's never going to be an agreement over Northern Ireland. The govt is playing silly b-----s, getting close to an agreement, with the EU bending over backwards to be accommodating and then the govt wanting more changes.

Trade deal with Australia scuppered. The document was 1600 pages long and the govt inserted an additional thousand so the Aussies return home without any agreement.

I suppose some would call these good negotiating tactics.

The pleasure the leave voters seem to take in our country's distress is breathtaking

lemongrove

A very emotional post from you Kali ......’it hurts deeply’ you say.....er, no it doesn’t hurt at all, who cares what foreign newspapers and social media say? They may be taking the heat off their own governments shortcomings.?
And for those who keep saying that the ‘EU won’t move an inch’ you are obviously not keeping up with the news, the EU is moving several feet when it comes to goods and NI.

No shame at all from me about being emotional and deeply hurt. I have been mocked and derided for saying I fell in love with the UK, well England, from the minute I set foot, Easter 1970. And I chose to stay, because I admired its values, culture, tolerance openess, variety of cultures ... I integrated 100%, gave it all I got- even went to Uni aged 29 to qualify as teacher and taught in local comps. All my adult life, raised my family there- who are still there. And always intented to return once the job we came to do here was done. But I just could not imagine returning now- and same for all the huge number of 'expats' I know here, in France, Germany, Switzerland, Italy, Germany, Austria and Czech republic. I see the Press, TV, satirical papers and social media from many countries and the USA too- and if you don't believe that the reputation of the UK has not gone straight down the shute, then you must live a very insular life.

You could argue that you don't care - but as we depend on those countries for imports and exports, and as they control all the routes in and out, and as we sold them most of our essential utilities, and they supply chemicals we need for, say water treatment, and medicines for cancer, diabetes, and so much more...then truly, if like Raab you do not quite understand the very specific realities of the geographical situation of GB ... then, what can I say.

The EU is trying so hard to make things easier and find solutions to ease situation between UK and NI - but as the UK plans to approve GM crops, and genetic engineering for farm animals- this is going to be very difficult. The EU, 100% understandably, DO NOT WANT those forbidden products entering the EU zone. If the UK triggers art 16, all hell will let loose! Blockading the UK is the easiest thing to do - geography, dear Watson, geography.

Fine, you will say, we can do it like the proverbial litte Red Hen- and do it all by ourselves.... some things we might be able to ...

But supply chains are closely linked to Europe- there is no kidding yourself here. Chemicals for water treatment, energy supplies, parts for our industries. The massive concern now is labour, be it HGV drivers, butchers, vets, nurses, doctors, carers ... the list is endless. And key medicines and cancer treatment, which we do not, and cannot produce ourselves.

Whitewavemark2

EU drivers can now enter and remain in the U.K. pottering around delivering goods without a visa.

Slaughtermen/butchers too, it’s such a shame our politicians don’t have foresight and have to play catch up, more climb downs to come?.

EU drivers can now enter and remain in the U.K. pottering around delivering goods without a visa.

Those who think Brexit was “done” are fooling themselves - it’s obviously not done and won’t be for the foreseeable.