Gransnet forums

News & politics

Many of us were dubious about the Oven Ready best ever deal ..

(100 Posts)
Kali2 Thu 14-Oct-21 10:27:41

but the recent revelations are truly shocking- it is hard to watch

But THIS is truly shocking. I am no fan of Paisley Snr or Jnr- but these revelations are going to rock the boat, and the EU are fully aware of this too. So when people talk about lack of trust in the word of Johnson, and the UK- no-one can be surprised

youtu.be/YLa0hVOU0Us

So he clearly told Paisley at the time, that he had every intention of tearing up the Deal before he signed it.

And that was BEFORE the Dec 2019 General Election and BEFORE the first Commons vote on this on 22nd October 2019.

Kali2 Thu 14-Oct-21 10:28:52

Remember this interview:

fb.watch/8DI5hXXQvv/

Zoejory Thu 14-Oct-21 10:29:36

As I've said on the other thread you have absolutely no idea if this was said.

There is no recording.

Because you aren't a fan of Boris or Brexit you blindly believe anything that fits your agenda.

I'm no fan of Boris or Brexit either.

But I'm not into hearsay

lemongrove Thu 14-Oct-21 10:35:57

If there is clear evidence that he said those words then show them?
I don’t think many of us are impressed with youtube and hearsay.

Whitewavemark2 Thu 14-Oct-21 10:39:24

We now have two witnesses to Johnson’s intention and I suspect others will crawl out of the woodwork.

As I have said and repeat.

Johnson is a liar and a fraud.

At present NI has superior trading conditions to the rest of the U.K. Conditions that businesses in NI recognise and appreciate. Johnson is intent on stripping them of that.

MaizieD Thu 14-Oct-21 10:41:45

It's a clip from Newsnight, so broadcast on national TV, last night I believe.

Why would Paisley lie about what he was told? (Or is it just he was talking to Johnson and lying is highly infectious?)

A longer version of it here:

twitter.com/BBCNewsnight/status/1448403418477912065

Zoejory Thu 14-Oct-21 10:47:23

Why wouldn't Paisley lie?

I doubt he's a fan of Boris Johnson

Yes, Boris lies. I'm not denying it. And I guess many politicians have lied. Along with most of humanity over the years.

However, I have no time for hearsay. It's pointless. Boris will just say he didn't say that. So who do we believe? If you dislike Boris and Co., you believe Paisley. And that's fine. You can feel that are right.

But that's simplistic and in other cases, dangerous.

This has only excited those who despise Boris and the government.

Whitewavemark2 Thu 14-Oct-21 10:51:44

Zoejory

Why wouldn't Paisley lie?

I doubt he's a fan of Boris Johnson

Yes, Boris lies. I'm not denying it. And I guess many politicians have lied. Along with most of humanity over the years.

However, I have no time for hearsay. It's pointless. Boris will just say he didn't say that. So who do we believe? If you dislike Boris and Co., you believe Paisley. And that's fine. You can feel that are right.

But that's simplistic and in other cases, dangerous.

This has only excited those who despise Boris and the government.

It isn’t hearsay ( banging head against a brick wall).

It is a witnesses statement, to the fraud and lies.

2 so far. There will be more

MaizieD Thu 14-Oct-21 11:23:45

This has only excited those who despise Boris and the government.

Well, of course it's not going to excite the people who voted for him on the strength of his lies, is it? Just the rather larger majority of people who didn't vote for him...

I wonder how many of his supporters teach their children and grandchildren that telling lies is absolutely fine if it gets you what you want?

Katie59 Thu 14-Oct-21 11:25:57

Wether he did tell Paisley to calm him down is irrelevant because after the 2019 election he didn’t need his support anyway
It was obvious because of the way negotiations were handled that he intended to renege on the agreement, the EU knew that any “good faith” was long gone and only cast iron legal obligations were made.

Whitewavemark2 Thu 14-Oct-21 11:29:16

Katie59

Wether he did tell Paisley to calm him down is irrelevant because after the 2019 election he didn’t need his support anyway
It was obvious because of the way negotiations were handled that he intended to renege on the agreement, the EU knew that any “good faith” was long gone and only cast iron legal obligations were made.

Re-writing history there I see.

It was not obvious that Johnson intended to act in bad faith. If that had been so, why would the EU been willing to sign?

GillT57 Thu 14-Oct-21 11:39:12

I don't know what depresses me more about this, the fact that our PM lied, or the fact that so many people just don't care. Saying that all politicians lie is not only untrue, it is a desperate measure to justify the dreadful behaviour of Johnson.

Kali2 Thu 14-Oct-21 17:25:17

I think it is a lot worse than 'not caring' - they actually approve, and will back him up, whatever he does or say.

Proof? Do you really think he would have said this on camera, recorded? Really?!?

Do you truly and sincerely believe, now, that he intended to full implement the Deal he negotiated and signed- including the Protocol- and that he somehow, by chance, did not quite understand it. Really?

lemongrove Thu 14-Oct-21 17:27:35

FGS!

Whitewavemark2 Thu 14-Oct-21 17:38:17

Kali2

I think it is a lot worse than 'not caring' - they actually approve, and will back him up, whatever he does or say.

Proof? Do you really think he would have said this on camera, recorded? Really?!?

Do you truly and sincerely believe, now, that he intended to full implement the Deal he negotiated and signed- including the Protocol- and that he somehow, by chance, did not quite understand it. Really?

Good post

Zoejory Thu 14-Oct-21 17:44:13

GillT57

I don't know what depresses me more about this, the fact that our PM lied, or the fact that so many people just don't care. Saying that all politicians lie is not only untrue, it is a desperate measure to justify the dreadful behaviour of Johnson.

Everyone lies, GillT57

Politicians have been called liars for decades.

Many a quote about it.

Zoejory Thu 14-Oct-21 17:49:23

Kali2

One always needs proof. One doesn't necessarily need a camera crew either o-0

Many posters who were calling Cummings all sorts have suddenly decided he's to be trusted now he's saying negative things about the Government. That's laughable. You only need to look back and read what was said about Cummings before he abandoned ship by posters opposed to this government.

And WW, it IS hearsay.

If this was said why did he keep quiet? So Paisley basically lied by not informing the public and the EU that the agreement would be torn up. Not the sign of a man one could trust.

Kali2 Thu 14-Oct-21 17:56:55

So,, what do you believe. Do you believe Johnson told the truth about no checks between UK and NI? Do you believe he had every intention of abiding by the Deal and the Northern Ireland protocol-

or that he was so so stupid he didn't not even understand the Deal?

You can't have it both ways. So which is it?

Zoejory Thu 14-Oct-21 18:04:21

Kali2, if you're talking to me, I have no idea.

I'm not privy to his thoughts.

And why do I want it both ways? What do I want both ways?

Urmstongran Thu 14-Oct-21 18:49:33

I don’t think Boris is stupid.
His ‘oven ready deal’ was tongue in cheek, to cheer us up who had voted for Brexit (because it was being thwarted in the HoC - I’m looking right at you Hilary Benn - and all those ‘indicative votes’ - remember them and the total mess that Bercow (Remainer) happily presided over.

I think most of us knew it was ‘good enough’ to get Brexit over the line. It was near to not happening for various reasons.

Did I think he was over-egging the pudding? Yes.
Through necessity!

Did I think it would need to get ‘tweaked’ at some stage? Yes.

Boris & Cummings & Frost all knew it too.

Kali2 Thu 14-Oct-21 19:21:55

Over egging the pudding ..

wow, just wow!

Zoejory, he either

lied knowing he would renege

or

did not understand what he was signing

Or do you have a third option- I can't see one.

Dinahmo Thu 14-Oct-21 19:30:36

"Yes, Boris lies. I'm not denying it. And I guess many politicians have lied. Along with most of humanity over the years."

I doubt that many people lie to the extent that Boris has done and still does. How often do you lie Zoejory? I can honestly say that the only time I lie is if someone asks how they look and I tell them "fine" or if I say I'm feeling unwell and can't go out. In fact the only time I lie is to avoid hurting someone's feelings.

varian Thu 14-Oct-21 19:34:57

That is the most depressing thing about the UK. Dinahmo

The readers of the Telegraph, the Daily Mail, the Express and the Sun, are programmed to keep voting for a liar because the facvt that Johnson lies is "priced in".

Kali2 Thu 14-Oct-21 19:50:17

Zoejory

GillT57

I don't know what depresses me more about this, the fact that our PM lied, or the fact that so many people just don't care. Saying that all politicians lie is not only untrue, it is a desperate measure to justify the dreadful behaviour of Johnson.

Everyone lies, GillT57

Politicians have been called liars for decades.

Many a quote about it.

Well there are all sorts of lies, small white lies so not to upset or offend - guilty as charged. And the severity goes up and up, and even beyond the beyond.

Lying as the PM of a country - by signing an International Treaty that has taken years to negotiate, at huge cost and time to all sides, is not just lying. It is fraudulent and much worse, and will have repercussion on every citizen, however they voted in the Referendum, and from whichever party or none.

If the UK turn down the genuine offer re GFA proposed by the EU, and invokes Art 16- I don't think anyone will ever trust the UK again unless there is a massive change. It is therefore massively important for Keir Starmer to rise up and show Europe and the rest of the world that he would redress this terrible situation with the help of others in alliance.

Kali2 Thu 14-Oct-21 19:52:07

Time to realise the UK is geographically not in an easy situation either- and could so easily be blocaded, energy, medicines, cooperation on immigration and terrorism- cut of.