Many of us were dubious about the Oven Ready best ever deal ..

lemongrove

A very emotional post from you Kali ......’it hurts deeply’ you say.....er, no it doesn’t hurt at all, who cares what foreign newspapers and social media say? They may be taking the heat off their own governments shortcomings.?
And for those who keep saying that the ‘EU won’t move an inch’ you are obviously not keeping up with the news, the EU is moving several feet when it comes to goods and NI.

The EU is offering concessions around oversight of goods going to NI to speed up checks, trusting us to carry out the checks, they are still insisting that they retain control, ultimately with ECJ jurisdiction. This is nowhere near what UK is demanding, are there any other concessions that amount to a foot of movement?.

A very emotional post from you Kali ......’it hurts deeply’ you say.....er, no it doesn’t hurt at all, who cares what foreign newspapers and social media say? They may be taking the heat off their own governments shortcomings.?
And for those who keep saying that the ‘EU won’t move an inch’ you are obviously not keeping up with the news, the EU is moving several feet when it comes to goods and NI.

''I don’t believe the reputation of the UK has been damaged.''

well what can I say?!? You must be very very insular in your outlook and information. The UK's reputation is in tatters- it is evident from the Press, TV and Social Media all over Europe and the World- and cartoonists are having a ball. It is painful, embarrassing- it hurts, deeply. I can only think you have NO idea, at all.

i don’t think anyone will trust the again
Australia don’t have a problem even though we shamefully dumped them after joining the common market.
Scruples, pride go out the window where money is concerned.

I don’t believe the reputation of the UK has been damaged. In fact I think we’re shaping up. Our negotiations are more robust and the EU is responding more amiably.

For many of us, moving forwards is to Unite in Opposition and stop this massive destruction, and restore the reputation of the UK. It won't reverse Brexit- but it will strongly shape WHAT KIND of Brexit- the HOW.

Urmstongran

We can’t keep bringing out these old chestnuts. Repeating them ad nauseum. We have to move forward.

Yes, indeed (see your post above- sorry! Indeed!!!)

Urmstongran

I don’t think it was about massive tax benefits for the rich Kali2.

I think it was about sovereignty. Like Barnier now feels for the French. Autonomy. Taking back control of our laws, our immigration our British decision making. Being able to rip up layers of red tape that weren’t needed here. Much as how Poland is feeling. Though they aren’t net contributors into the bargain, as we were.

Yes I think it was sovereignty for you and many-

it was for massive Tax Evasion for the very rich, the ERG and their supporters, who paid massive amounts to ensure the deception worked and the 'sovereignty' lie was swallowed, hook and sinker!

We can’t keep bringing out these old chestnuts. Repeating them ad nauseum. We have to move forward.

WW
“ If the British negotiators thought that they could bend EU law then they hadn’t been paying attention for the past 40 years.”

They were so deluded they really did think that, right till the 11th hour, you simply don’t leave any club, then demand the club changes it’s rules to suit you.

I don’t think it was about massive tax benefits for the rich Kali2.

I think it was about sovereignty. Like Barnier now feels for the French. Autonomy. Taking back control of our laws, our immigration our British decision making. Being able to rip up layers of red tape that weren’t needed here. Much as how Poland is feeling. Though they aren’t net contributors into the bargain, as we were.

And I find that absolutely astonishing and incomprehensible.

However do you believe that if people had been told the truth, and the real consequences as we see now (and I agree, Covid did not help either) - they would still have voted for it?

And cannot imagine the answer can be 'yes'. Which is why they lied, and lied, and lied some more- because they needed to lie hugely to get it through- at all and any costs.

Because it was, and will always be- about massive tax evasion for the massively rich- and nothing else. At any cost to the country and its people- remainers, brexiters, and anything in between.

I did WWmk2 and was happy to do so.
I’d do the same again in a heartbeat.
Even with hindsight.

Oh I don’t know varian - EU actually sells far more to us than the other way round.

Urmstongran

I didn’t think for one minute it was the best deal.
It was just expedient to deliver it. Fair enough.
There was no other option within that timescale. I remember it well.

But you voted for it

I didn’t think for one minute it was the best deal.
It was just expedient to deliver it. Fair enough.
There was no other option within that timescale. I remember it well.

The one thing we could do to reduce our carbon footprint is to ensure that anything that cannot be produced here is imported from our nearest neighbours. and not from the other side of the world.

Unfortunately we have treated our nearest neighbours so badly that they are unlikely to ever trust us as trading partners again.

Katie59

WW
Bad faith, frankly it was the way that negotiation were handled, ducking and diving, cherry picking, it was quite plain the UK team could not be trusted, that is not how business is done. Those is the sort of business deals you walk away from, it really is better to have no deal than a bad one.

At the end of the day the EU did not give an inch, all our red lines passed, they simply refused to compromise on their rules and laws. Now it’s up to us to prove that our regulations are equal to theirs AND will continue meet their standards if we want to trade with them.

If the British negotiators thought that they could bend EU law then they hadn’t been paying attention for the past 40 years.

WW
Bad faith, frankly it was the way that negotiation were handled, ducking and diving, cherry picking, it was quite plain the UK team could not be trusted, that is not how business is done. Those is the sort of business deals you walk away from, it really is better to have no deal than a bad one.

At the end of the day the EU did not give an inch, all our red lines passed, they simply refused to compromise on their rules and laws. Now it’s up to us to prove that our regulations are equal to theirs AND will continue meet their standards if we want to trade with them.

His ‘oven ready deal’ was tongue in cheek, to cheer us up

Sorry, but WTF?????

Time to realise the UK is geographically not in an easy situation either- and could so easily be blocaded, energy, medicines, cooperation on immigration and terrorism- cut of.

Zoejory

GillT57

I don't know what depresses me more about this, the fact that our PM lied, or the fact that so many people just don't care. Saying that all politicians lie is not only untrue, it is a desperate measure to justify the dreadful behaviour of Johnson.

Everyone lies, GillT57

Politicians have been called liars for decades.

Many a quote about it.

Well there are all sorts of lies, small white lies so not to upset or offend - guilty as charged. And the severity goes up and up, and even beyond the beyond.

Lying as the PM of a country - by signing an International Treaty that has taken years to negotiate, at huge cost and time to all sides, is not just lying. It is fraudulent and much worse, and will have repercussion on every citizen, however they voted in the Referendum, and from whichever party or none.

If the UK turn down the genuine offer re GFA proposed by the EU, and invokes Art 16- I don't think anyone will ever trust the UK again unless there is a massive change. It is therefore massively important for Keir Starmer to rise up and show Europe and the rest of the world that he would redress this terrible situation with the help of others in alliance.

That is the most depressing thing about the UK. Dinahmo

The readers of the Telegraph, the Daily Mail, the Express and the Sun, are programmed to keep voting for a liar because the facvt that Johnson lies is "priced in".

"Yes, Boris lies. I'm not denying it. And I guess many politicians have lied. Along with most of humanity over the years."

I doubt that many people lie to the extent that Boris has done and still does. How often do you lie Zoejory? I can honestly say that the only time I lie is if someone asks how they look and I tell them "fine" or if I say I'm feeling unwell and can't go out. In fact the only time I lie is to avoid hurting someone's feelings.

Over egging the pudding ..

wow, just wow!

Zoejory, he either

lied knowing he would renege

or

did not understand what he was signing

Or do you have a third option- I can't see one.