We are watching the demise of the NHS with our eyes wide open.

I worked in the NHS too SunnySusie, and that is not my opinion at all. The NHS is constantly reorganised to ‘make it better’. What politicians want the public to believe is that it’s being reorganised because it isn’t performing well. Actually that is a smokescreen for them not having an understanding of the issues and thinking tinkering round the edges and badging it as reorganisation will put the public off the scent. They think the public is stupid and doesn’t realise what they are doing.

If the NHS is underesourced Casdon, have you any idea how much it would cost to resource it adequately and how should the money be managed?
i once lived in a leafy town in Herts. there was a very large middle class population. I was a member of the national Houewives Register ( now we are Growing old disgracefully) and I will always recall some very well spoken members going on indignantly about their GP refusing a presecription for TixyLix ( childs cough medicine) I had been living in PNG for many years so i was quite unused to asking a doctor for that or for paracetamol, so i asked why they did not just buy it from the chemist. I got a lecture about their rights to medicines being prescribed. Now i know that some poor people do need such meds prescribed but these women were not poor and I think it is a disgrace to ask for free prescriptions for over the counter medication if you can afford to buy it. I feel the same about people pie into A&E for minor ailments. But then I am someone who lived in places where we had no doctors but nurses on the Missionary set up in a nearby village. We just generally waited for a few days to see if minor ailments went away before we asked the Doctor over the radio if we needed to fly or boat to a town where there were doctors. But we we were much younger and our youngest child was only 2 and he only had one serious bout of malaria which was scary. the people I feel most sorry for are thise suffering from extremely serious illnesses who really do need to be examined and possibly referred to a consultant before it is too late. That is awful.

Having worked in the NHS it is my belief that you could give the NHS every single bit of taxpayer money and it still wouldnt work. The problem is NOT lack of money. This is a cop out invented by politicians so that they can evade responsibility and push the blame onto the public who dont want to pay more in taxes.

The problem is that the whole system was conceived for a post 2nd world war country which doesnt exist any more. In 1948 people didnt 'bother the doctor', partly because many ailments couldnt be treated anyway. Large numbers of working people died in their 60s or 70s, there were very few allergies, hardly any asthma or diabetes, very little obesity, far fewer mental health problems. People didnt live for decades with serious illness, they died in short order.

If you were one of the very few who were educated to the level required to be a medic you treated your profession as a vocation. Our family doctors in the 1950s were a husband and wife team serving the entire village who turned out day or night, 24/7 whenever a patient needed them. People thought differently and acted differently. No one would have made an appointment with doctor and not turned up, nor would they have questioned the doctors opinion, nor called them out for a minor problem.

The whole system needs to be abandoned and re-invented for the 21st century. Root and branch.

I’m holding back my Violet Elizabeth Bott impression by a whisker Alegrias1.

Elvis58 I can tell you haven’t been keeping up.

The NHS did not make the decision to send patients back to care homes without covid testing, it was a directive. People picked up the infection in hospital because there was insufficient PPE, the infection control requirements were not fully understood, and because most NHS wards are not designed to deal with the situation they were in, with bedded bays for multiple patients and shared bathrooms.

The NHS was funded adequately by the last Labour Government, and by 2010 waiting times were low, standards were high, as was patient and staff satisfaction. Of course it’s not above reproach, because so much of care is down to individuals, but there were not the systemic issues there are now.

There undoubtedly is abuse by some members of the public, but I take issue with your perception that it was set up purely as a life saving service because that was never the case, it was set up to improve the health of the nation.

Why are people always so ready to blame the service and the staff within it when the issues are much more to do with the environment in which is expected to operate?

Who's that screaming?

Sounds like Casdon.

I feel fortunate too, daisend. Had a bone density scan arranged for me without my asking but I had broken my wrist four years ago and my shoulder just before the pandemic. Bad falls, not weak bones but the Practice didn't know that! Also been contacted by phone about BP meds and all available vaccines are up to date (booster and flu yesterday).

I asked for a tetanus jab after I damaged my finger quite badly with a sharp gardening tool and the nurse, sorry, 'practitioner', at the minor injuries place I went to gave me one (also diptheria and polio boosters) after she'd dressed the wound.

Alioop

They need more money to fund GPs & hospitals before it's too late. Simples.

Yes!

The NHS has long been a money pit, overblown with middle management and accoubtable to none until recently. A colossal amount of money has been wasted over the years.The very same NHS that sent the elderly untested back to care homes after they picked the infection up in hospital.Lets not pretend its above reproach.
It is a money pit that will never be funded enough by any government.
Its been abused by the general public who turn up at A and E with an ear ache, tooth ache and any other ache. Drunks on a Saturday night, drug addicts.
People who tick their perscriptions who stock pile medicines just in case.
Glutton free food on perscription, paracetamol 20p in Wilkinsons costing the NHS pounds on perscripetions,ridiculous!
People who want gender reassignment, breast reductions, ivf or any other thing they think they are entitled too.
It was set up to treat illness and people with life threatening illnesses.
Not what it is expected to do today!

I must be one of the fortunate. Although in the past twelve months only four face to face with my doc the rest phone calls have received very speedy hospital appts
Colonoscsopy only waited a month for this and only waited but given all clear phew! two weeks later , /my regular yearly and on time ecg,/ doc sending me for hip exray in early Nov as experiencing pain from the site of a two year old hip replacement and last but not least flu booster. Coming up next month covid boost.

GrannyGravy13

Baggs

The majority of drugs wasted in the NHS are as a result of patients in the community not taking their prescribed medication and failing to cancel their prescription

Easy solution for that: stop providing automatic repeat prescriptions, or at least reduce them and have some way of checking that they are not going to waste. For example are they collected from pharmacies? Do GPs do annual in-person checks on their patients' prescription needs. And so on.

I have a repeat prescription for several ongoing illnesses, I have to have a yearly medication review on all prescribed medications otherwise the repeat prescription is cancelled.

Ditto for me, GG. I suspect it is what all GP practices are supposed to do. Perhaps most do. I have no way of knowing.

Then there are hospital prescriptions....

Baggs

^The majority of drugs wasted in the NHS are as a result of patients in the community not taking their prescribed medication and failing to cancel their prescription^

Easy solution for that: stop providing automatic repeat prescriptions, or at least reduce them and have some way of checking that they are not going to waste. For example are they collected from pharmacies? Do GPs do annual in-person checks on their patients' prescription needs. And so on.

I have a repeat prescription for several ongoing illnesses, I have to have a yearly medication review on all prescribed medications otherwise the repeat prescription is cancelled.

I agree that there is too much blaming of NHS managers without most of us, I suspect having any idea of their roles. Pre-covid, I was watching a documentary about the day to day running of a surgical ward, and it was a true eyeopener. The balance between admitting patients, discharging patients and ensuring adequate post discharge care, ensuring theatres were used efficiently was mind blowingly difficult, especially when the government fines a hospital trust for exceeding their budget. One example was of a patient awaiting surgery, admitted, prepped, surgeons and theatre booked, ICU bed ready as there was a high likelihood of said patient needing one for a couple of days but then due to an emergency admission to ICU (road accident), the whole thing had to be postponed. Thus theatre staff and time were 'wasted'. It is not, sadly, simply a matter of firing all the managers and paying for more surgeons and nurses. I do not profess to be knowledgeable in this matter, but I do know that it is not quite as simple as the press would have us believe.

The majority of drugs wasted in the NHS are as a result of patients in the community not taking their prescribed medication and failing to cancel their prescription

Easy solution for that: stop providing automatic repeat prescriptions, or at least reduce them and have some way of checking that they are not going to waste. For example are they collected from pharmacies? Do GPs do annual in-person checks on their patients' prescription needs. And so on.

I was in hospital over a year ago. I was talking to a couple of nurses who complained that they never saw the managers of the hospital. Not once did they visit " downstairs ". Noone thought to walk round a ward,speak to the nurses,tell them they were doing a good job, noone thanked the doctors,,noone spoke to the patients. Not one spoke to the cleaners and all the ancillary workers. The problem is not throwing more money at the NHS it's spending it wisely. The managers get paid more than doctors, yet they stay in their ivory towers not bothering to ask the people who really matter,the workers and the patients.

I was in hospital over a year ago a

The majority of drugs wasted in the NHS are as a result of patients in the community not taking their prescribed medication and failing to cancel their prescriptions, resulting in large stockpiles (which have often gone out of date before they are discovered). Only 7 days worth of medication is given on discharge from hospital, and they will dispose of any unwanted medications taken into hospital if a patients prescription changes. It’s a very complex area, but in the grand scheme of the NHS funding, it’s a drop in the ocean.
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If I hear that there are too many managers in the NHS and they are incompetent again I’m going to scream - most of them are clinicians running clinical services, and are hardworking, experienced people trying to keep a sinking ship afloat. Can’t people see that managers are the scapegoat for the under-resourced system not working effectively, not the cause of it. The Government and the media have to have somebody to blame and managers are the soft target in the NHS.

It is tragic that the demise of the NHS is unfolding before our eyes. I am old enough to remember my parents talking about the NHS with joy and gratitude after years of struggling to be able to afford to see a doctor - sometimes having to choose who in the family should take priority.

I don't know the answer to the current state of our NHS but I firmly believe that it shouldn't be in the hands of party politics. A coalition of all parties is needed to ensure a proper and fair system of funding for the long term. And while they are at it, can we please have an integrated system for social care.

It has been the policy of successive governments for 30-40 years to get rid of the NHS which has become a victim of, not only its own success but the massive improvements in what is possible medically and surgically. Plus there is a huge increase in patient expectation. All flavours of government use the media (especially newspapers) to trash something they wish to undermine. And mud sticks. So now people believe such rubbish as doctors only want to carry out telephone consultations, all people on benefits are scroungers, all pensioners are hoarding their wealth, the NHs doesn’t work at weekends, prisoners live the life of Reilly, people chose to use foodbanks and then go and sell the goods at carboot sales etc etc. I have to go privately for dentistry and optical care and have for years paid for acupuncture and chiropractic treatment which has kept me out of the NHS waiting rooms. I worked as a Foot Health Practitioner (privately) visiting folk in their homes giving my best to each one and not over-charging. It was at the time when NHS podiatry services were severely reduced for diabetics and at the same time a huge increase in type 2 diabetes and warnings of increasing amputations. Financially this doesn’t add up - well controlled diabetes and foot care is far cheaper than increasing health demands following amputation (or amputations). As I used to say to my clients- if you’re offered anything on the NHS grab with both hands it’s going to disappear. ( One thing that annoys me is certain suppliers of optical services which are private, are allowed to use the NHS logo ( which many believe means they are the NHS) and do they pay tax in this country? ) When the internal market was introduced in the NHS and Blair renegotiated GPs contracts the fate of the NHS was sealed.)

Re waiting lists... I had both my cataracts done within twelve weeks of my optician referring me.

Growstuff, I used to have private insurance purely because my late husband had it as part of his salary ( it is quite common as my daughter has a very generous medical insurance with the bank she works for because ALL employees have it) I decided after my husband died to pay for it, but the expense of it was too high. I am not wealthy and worked out the £200 it costs to see this cardio who I have known since about 30 years is worth it. I do not go out much, do not spend money on clothes or expensive holidays as I am lucky to have a single son who lives in a house large enough for me to stay there for months. I guess as we age we stop spending money on eating out much or keeping on buying clothes. I am wearing casual stuff I have had for 20 years or more and my needs are not expensive. My husband always saved for “rainy days” and my money is spent on a yearly or so check up and now on getting my cataracts removed...not a very exciting life! The other criticism I noted was having a go ar women who as GPs decide to work part time. I was not having a go at women at all. They are using common sense and deciding they do not need the stress of full time work. Many women with children like to work part time if they can manage financially. It is a fact of life and if I was a young GP I would do that myself.

I worked in a GP surgery until 5 months ago, before Covid-19 there were already calls from NHS England to move to telephone and video calls, but practices and patients were both resistant to this. Covid-19 forced this situation, and it will, to a large extent, remain.
What I see in the NHS, generally, is too many managers paid far too much, and not enough staff on the ground, also, a lot of misuse of funds from decisions made by managers who are business orientated, not medical, and don't understand what is really needed.
The changes in the NHS need to start from within.

HannahLoisLuke, I agree, again there is huge waste on medical equipment, implements, nuts and bolts etc because appliances are charged at astronomical prices by greedy medical equipment and pharmaceutical companies. We have been held to ransom long enough. Government should look at changing rules re these companies

The NHS needs to look at what the are paying senior admin, who mostly do little but micromanage those who know how to do their jobs. A big cull in non-clinical managers would enable more money to be free to fund the real workers. For years the NHS have run the service on goodwill, certainly not good pay, which is dire. There is also waste, taking people to clinics and hospital as patients say they can’t make their own way and expect ambulance transport (costing £100s). There is a lot of expectation on services and staff are exhausted trying to provide free transport to people who are needy and lie to get it. Same as people going to A&E for trivial matters, which chemists could easily handle. The country needs to get a grip so that we can have an effective NHS serving those who need it and reward those who bravely continue to serve

Regarding unused medicines. Last year I had a medication review and the asthma nurse decided that my inhaler should be changed as I’d been on the previous one for several years and although it was working for me she said I had to change. The new inhalers duly arrived and I started to use. Because they were a powder inhaler instead of vapour they made me cough so that I wasn’t getting any benefit. After a couple of weeks with my symptoms worsening I phoned and asked to go back on old inhaler. This was refused and yet a different one prescribed. This was a vapour one so at least didn’t make me cough. On contacting the pharmacy about the unused, unopened inhalers I was told to dispose if them. They just can’t be reissued to another patient. This is obviously a problem that must cost the NHS thousands of pounds and obviously not helping in the shortage of funds.
Pharmacy companies also overcharge for medicines and appliances in my opinion.
Some years ago I was shown what looked like a plastic rawl plug, such as those used to hold screws into a wall. It was in fact used in hip surgery and had fallen off the trolley in theatre so couldn’t be used. The cost if that small plastic/nylon fitting? £600!!! This was about seven years ago.
Just two incidences if wastage in the NHS, though not their fault necessarily. Needs to be addressed though.
I’m not going down the political route, the problem has existed for years and years under all governments.