We are watching the demise of the NHS with our eyes wide open.

NHS is failing because of lack of staff at caring level! Skeleton staff on A&E last week where I waited for almost 12 hours with a very sick DH. One of the nurses was on his own, partner had called in sick, no replacement and he had to cope on his own. Another on a 12 hour shift, this used to happen once a month, now every second day.
Not surprised people are leaving the NHS in droves, the working conditions must be intolerable.

maddyone, are you referring to NHS 111 as the very good out of hours service? In my area, I called them at 11pm, was told someone would be with my seriously ill partner within a couple of hours, I waited up all night for them only to receive a text at 7am informing me that they had finished their shift and I should now contact my partner's GP Surgery...

I think the wastage of unopened medicines is an area that concerns us all, and yet what to do about it no one knows. I presume medicines are destroyed unused because of the small possibility that someone outside the pharmacy/hospital may have tampered with them. Remember the case a few years ago of the nurse who was injecting something into bags of saline in a hospital in Stockport? I don’t know what the answer to this is, but the waste must be phenomenal.

There have been a lot of comments on here about GP’s and the NHS but GP’s are not part of the NHS but run as private businesses.

Major costs in the NHS are staff and drugs. I can never understand why hospitals pay agency nurses a fortune when it would surely be simpler to pay nurses more and cut their hours. I cannot think you will get the best treatment from a nurse or doctor who has worked a 14 hour shift.

I agree that a fair number of GPs are working part time. My GP retired a couple of years ago and one of the reasons was that he was putting in a lot of hours because he couldn't get people to work full time and, don't shoot me down for saying this, the majority of those who would only work part time were women doctors. Agreed that may be for a number of personal reasons. However, my son has just become engaged to a female GP, early 30's, who only works three days a week and has no family commitments. Also, my nephew and his fiancee, both GPs, have no interest in settling into a practise and only want to do locum work. Not sure where that leaves us and I don't think funding or extra money will solve the problem.

Rose66 I’m very sorry to hear this. When I was ill with Covid earlier this year, after calling 111, I was put into the virtual Covid ward for about half an hour. As I was deteriorating rapidly, the ambulance was called by the Covid ward doctor and arrived within fifteen minutes, and I was taken to hospital.

My husband also called 111 after I was discharged and I had a hospital acquired infection. An antibiotic was prescribed at around midnight and my husband went to the duty chemist to collect it. I started my treatment in the early hours and was already improving by the morning. Getting completely over the Covid took somewhat longer.

Yep slow NHS waiting lists and also getting lost in the system means my husband, who was diagnosed with fast growing cancer, has only just had his surgery scheduled for this week. They said he'd be operated on within 4 weeks. This week will be week 9.

Both my husband I have had a telephone consultation with our GP recently. Mine lasted 12 minutes and my husband’s was 20 mins. How is this more efficient than 10 mins each at the surgery?

As a matter of interest janipans how did you acquire such a huge stockpile of unused medications? I have seven item on a repeat prescription and I never have more than a couple of weeks' supply at any one time. I've actually been told to build up a bigger stockpile, in case there are difficulties getting what I need or I'm ill and can't get to the pharmacy.

Can anybody actually put a figure on unused medications?

Urmstongran You are absolutely spot on. As an NHS employee I can honestly say the wrong doing by management is horrifying. The incompetence, the waste the employing of family members is shocking!

Spec1alk

Both my husband I have had a telephone consultation with our GP recently. Mine lasted 12 minutes and my husband’s was 20 mins. How is this more efficient than 10 mins each at the surgery?

I agree. I've sometimes wondered how efficient triaging and telephone consultations are. It seems to me that they take double the amount of time that a face-to-face appointment would. The two occasions I've been triaged and had telephone consultations, I've ended up with face-to-face consultations anyway. I can't even get a telephone consultation for my current problems.

Silvertwigs

Urmstongran You are absolutely spot on. As an NHS employee I can honestly say the wrong doing by management is horrifying. The incompetence, the waste the employing of family members is shocking!

Employing family members is a new one. What's wrong with that, if they're qualified for the job?

One of the nurses at my practice is the daughter of a former GP. She's been there for years and is by far the best nurse in the practice.

I am extremely hard of hearing. I can't use a telephone. Try dealing with a medical emergency...how?

Most of us on here seem to be of the same opinion that the NHS is in trouble, that the decline is a deliberate political move. As to what can be done, we each have our own suggestions and ideas, but the 3 different events which have happened to close family and friends in the past few months, events which could have caused two of them to die had there not been family to take them to hospital ( NO ambulances available) or to pay for what would have become an emergency had things been left as they were, has made me truly extremely concerned about what lies ahead for me as I age, and for my family. This is not scaremongering. I always believed that the NHS was there for heroic, life saving treatment, and had began to accept, grudgingly, that other services such as dentistry, podiatry, physiotherapy etc would have to be paid for if I didn't want a very long wait, now I am not so sure. That unpopular politician J Corbyn warned the electorate, and nobody wanted to listed.

Tories say they don't want to pay for someone else's health care, the NHS is socialist you pay in according to your income and get the care you need. My lovely m-i-l has been waiting 3 yrs for a hip replacement I no longer get NHS podiatry even though my feet are twisted (see lynnepardoe.com if you're interested) and I had to pay to have my ears dewaxed. In the last election people said are Americans going to be buying our NHS & it going private billionaire owned press said 'does trump want to buy our NHS' the article said no he doesn't, worry averted. It wasn't Trump but Americans can and are buying our NHS & the people were tricked

Jackthelad

The consistent message I read in this thread is that the NHS is under funded. Where is this extra money to come from? Us the tax payer, of course. Very soon we are just about to pay even more tax to be given into the open maw of the NHS. I don't believe it will solve anything as it hasn't so far. When the NHS was set up in 1948 it started to go wrong almost immediately. The demand exceeded supply and so prescription charges came in. Swiftly followed by charges for spectacles. Dentists by and large have come out the NHS and that seems to have been generally accepted. Britain was the first in the field with healthcare. Other nations followed but learned from our mistakes. So now is the time for us to take a good hard look at their systems of working and incorporate the best bits and improve avoiding their mistakes. There has to be change or the NHS will collapse under its own bureaucratic weight.

The problem is (as has been shown during the pandemic) that, with the current government the first thing that would be taken into account if the NHS was completely restructured would be how their friends and financial supporters would be able to make money out of it. I would probably be quite happy for a Labour government to look long and hard at how the NHS could be improved, but not a government that thinks only of shareholders and profit.

spabbygirl I think that's the way things are going. Emergency care will probably (hopefully) continue to be free, but we'll have to pay for anything else which involves pain or preventative medicine.

I knew exactly who would start this discussion! It is all those wicked Tories with their private health insurance. Well I am a Tory voter who does see a cardiologist privately but self funds to see him once a year. Good value. Like many of you I do use the NHS and although my local hospital in NW London was one of the leading ones for treating Covid and in fact was the subject of a BBC Documentary series on how one hospital dealt with the virus, it has sprung back to life and I have three new appointments in the next couple of weeks..

The NHS began to use private diagnostic services during the reign of Tony Blair and before the Tories came to power, they used the most upmarket and most expensive hospital in London to bring patients from Wales for major heart surgery when that country was lagging behind the rest of the country in open heart surgery.

The NHS has more employees than any other health service than most others in the world and contrary to UK opinion it is not the best health organisation in the world. I had double pneumonia plus a heart attack whilst in Australia celebrating my 80tn birthday and came close to death. I was in a provincial city called Warrnambool and the treatment I was given was second to none and they did not charge me as they have an agreement with the UK government to treat senior citizens. Do you really think that this large, cumbersome system is unparalleled in the world?

People are rightly upset about the shortage of GPs. Well there is a good reason for that. In many.surgeries you will find a preponderance of female GPs who are not stupid but are young mothers who worked out that when that nice Mr Blair gave them salaries of £100, 000, they could afford to go part time. Many males in their 50s also have started working shorter hours. Many have retired. They also have a very strong union who persuaded them not to see so many patients because of the dangers of Covid

It is not all the fault of the wicked Tories who want to see the end of the NHS. All actions have consequences and Tony Blair just decided to give GPs a better pay deal and also decided to use private sector facilities to push through more cases than the NHS could deal with. I wonder how many of you watched that excellent TV series on the management failures that are common in the NHS? Operating theatres stood empty because Surgeons and Specialists are only available on certain days of the week because they are allowed to run private practices while employed by the NHS. The best Unions for conditions are those of the upscale professionals like Surgeons and other specialists whose private practices bring in a lot of money.

Then under both Tory and Labour governments we had a significant influx of workers and other immigrants who came to UK but unfortunately we lack the infrastructure to look after them all. Additionally, many professionals returned to their EU countries after Brexit.

I am surprised that WhiteWaterMark seems to concentrate on purely political anti Tory rhetoric for the entire ills of the nation. Quite frankly, I think the entire Calibre of the front benches on both sides of the House is sadly lacking. At least I am prepared to admit that both Tory and Labour politicians do not inspire me much, but I think there is little chance of Labour being elected. Sir Keir Starmer is a nice man but he is is better Lawyer than a politician and as to who will succeed Boris if he falls on his sword the front runners are Rishi Sunak and Liz Truss....but only the good Lord knows who that will be.

Aye! And there's the rub MayBee.

But Annie1 ... presumably you think your private visits to a cardiologist are worth it. What about all the people who can't afford it?

Keir Starmer might be a better lawyer than politician ( having said, that we need someone with a good grasp of the law when the current government consistently try to break it, both internally and internationally) but at least he isn’t a better second rate journalist than politician….or even PM ( heaven help us)

The situation with GP provision is very complex and I find myself continually jumping from one side of the fence to the other. Urmstongran's comment about funding for anything outside of normal consultation is true and the rapid progress in the covid vaccination programme was down to just that with a fee of £10 being given to GPs for every jab they injected - really?? The GP who gave my OH his first jab told him that he was her 1,000th 'customer' - this was in late January 2021 - no wonder she was smiling. On the other hand I can't agree that GPs should be criticised for working part-time - the choice to work full or part-time is progress for everyone but especially women so to hurl criticism at women is unhelpful to the debate. And finally, there is no real comparison between working as a GP and working as a banker or retail manager since the nature of the work as a GP is much more emotionally demanding and a part-time GP is usually 'working' in one way or another for the same number of hours as a full-time banker or retail worker.

If you pay into private health insurance and have an emergency you will still be advised to go to A&E as the best source of treatment. Dh asked about paying privately for his heart op. The GP said don’t bother as you will get the same surgeon and same treatment under NHS and you will save £30,000.

Interesting posts especially from Urmstomgran. It’s really a problem I have never known anything like it. We say …well covid… that’s true but I remember in February 2020 when I was aware of the forthcoming pandemic by reading respected virologists I went to my GP who had a daily drop in service for two hours a day. I waited for over three hours to see random GP, we are not allowed continuity of care as s right, and I counted 52 people in that large waiting room, all under the weather. I was so shocked. I had cellulitis from infected bite, needed antibiotics, so had to stay.
Two years before I had been diagnosed with a terminal condition and was in great shock for the first year. My GP in the practice had initially been very supportive. And three months later I had an appointment to see him to catch up on the latest tests from the hospital. He stayed on his feet as I entered and said ‘what was it? he had sick people to see!’ I felt humiliated and left. If you have a rare condition and the hospital doesn’t have a department specialist in it you hope your doctor will be the link that keeps you going.
Well you get used to anything. I get most info from a forum of fellow sufferers most of whom are not in the UK. Different worlds.
Consultant phones yearly instead of face to face because of covid. Last month he put three consultations in place at three different hospitals in a specific order that made sense. Weeks later I got appointments in different hospitals in wrong order. I’ve cancelled one and changed another still waiting for what supposed to be the first.
The GP practice only takes telephone appointments for telephone appointments not emails. The last time I needed appointment for infection it took 45 minutes to get answer then you are told that they are very busy and a doctor will phone you later that day. He did and I was told to pick up antibiotic from Boots. Boots hadn’t got the message I had to go back… and so it goes.
I just avoid and deny, google and breathe deeply. When you are ageing and living alone it feels dangerous.

They need more money to fund GPs & hospitals before it's too late. Simples.