Wild swimming? Think again

M0nica

petera Since writing the above I have been reading an articly by Paul, Embury of the Fireman's Union on Unherd. unherd.com/2021/10/the-lefts-destructive-tribalism/?tl_inbound=1&tl_groups[0]=18743&tl_period_type=3&mc_cid=f3e7f516ae&mc_eid=be97ec1684

The whole essay is well worth reading, but in it. my eye immediately centred on this excerpt
The tendency of many on the Left to see those on the other side of the political debate as inherently bad people — even sometimes as something a bit less than human. It is a dispiriting and destructive approach.

It is endemic on GN is so many threads, even this one.

I think it’s wrong to make assumptions that every Labour voter is automatically against anything the government do. Starmer has been criticised for supporting the government with some measures taken because of the pandemic. Personally I often write and thank MP’s from all parties if they do something I approve of.In recent times I’ve written to David Davis, Andrew Mitchell and even (I know, I can’t believe this myself) Nadine Dorries. The latter, however, was when she spoke up in parliament about the importance of wearing masks and I assume she has changed her mind since then.

Of course, it just depends. If people on the 'opposite' side keep excusing or condoning the actions and decisions of their Party- whatever the consequences or damages, then I think it is fair to believe that they approve and are part of it. I have many friends and relatives who are true Conservatives who do not support the actions of Johnson and the ERG- and totally condemn the pumping of raw sewage into the sea and rivers, for instance.

Criticism of the actions of this Government is because they are acting in a way that damages the country and all who sail in her- Tories, Labour and anything in between.

Excusing them, condoning them- makes anyone part of it. If your party behaves badly and damages the country- it is your duty to rise and say so. As in 1933 Germany, for instance.

Sadly, this is also the result of the First Past the Post system, where you are either for, or against- leading to see-saw politics which are very destructive indeed.

In my opinion it is time the government took back ownership of this vital supply. which should never have been privatised.

I thought Blair would halt it but apparently it was too late

Mind you, I always say I'll never swim in the sea unless I'm west of Hartland Point and St. Govan's Head

I'll just leave this here

UK raw sewage will soon be polluting other countries too.

''water companies are unable to get the chemicals they need to treat raw sewage because the government failed to plan sufficiently for disruptions caused by Brexit. Indeed, a spokesperson for Water UK, the trade association that represents the major water companies of the UK, says the sector is experiencing “some disruption to the supply in England of ferric sulphate, a chemical used at some drinking and wastewater treatment sites”. The shortages have arisen due to “a shortage of HGV drivers in the UK”.

For its part, the government says there are “robust conditions in place to mitigate risks to the environment”, and that “any company planning to make use of this short-term measure must first agree its use with the Environment Agency, which will be checking compliance”.

Yet to outsiders, it appears the government has inadvertently chucked some rather important “red tape” on to the Brexit bonfire. Government statements about “robust conditions” and “compliance” should set off alarm bells because the Environment Agency is an increasingly toothless beast. It lacks the resources to enforce compliance. In the name of – you guessed it – cutting red tape, the agency has seen its funding drastically reduced in recent years. Its government grant has been cut by two-thirds since 2010, meaning it no longer has the means to respond to all but the most serious incidents of pollution.

Furthermore, even when it does hand out fines, the water companies are apt to treat them as legitimate business costs, less punitive than the price of upgrading sewage treatment facilities. In July of this year, Southern Water pleaded guilty to knowingly discharging billions of tonnes of raw sewage into the sea over a period of six years.''

Back to Brexit

While this is a long-term and on-going issue, recent developments have shown that we have no problem that Brexit cannot make worse. The supply of ferric sulphate is a growing cause for concern.

Ferric sulphate is used to remove phosphorous at wastewater treatment plants. Too much phosphorus starves rivers of oxygen, killing animals and plants. There is no shortage of ferric sulphate but the supply chain crisis means that it is stuck in the factories and cannot get to the water treatment works. As we have explained in previous articles, a shortage of both UK and EU-based drivers has had profound effects on our ability simply to move things around the country.

The government’s response has been entirely predictable. All the way through this crisis, it has steadfastly refused to address the driver shortage and this new problem has not softened its attitude. Last week, it merely waived the regulations. The Environment Agency (part of Defra) will now allow water companies to dump untreated sewage into the rivers for the rest of this year, as long as they get written permission first.

No doubt Severn Trent’s shareholders will be delighted.

And just in time for the Environment Summit- perfect timing!

Water Companies, who have a ready market with zero competition, paid £57 BILLION to their shareholders from 1991-2019, say that they can’t afford to replace their infrastructure.

Just think what that £57BILLION would have rebuilt if the water companies were in our hands and not some profiteering individuals who have no care to our waterways and wildlife, let alone those who use them for their pleasure or work.

Callistemon

Mind you, I always say I'll never swim in the sea unless I'm west of Hartland Point and St. Govan's Head

Have you seen the level of sewerage on the west countries coastline and run off in the rivers ???.

I think you need to revise your policy.

And now complaining bitterly about the EU being bullies as they put stop shellfish exports from UK. Mind you, I suppose it is a clever tactic to stop the EU fishing in UK waters!

Nothing, not even the EU, could destroy the shellfish and fish industry better than tons and tons of untreated sewage being poured into our waters.

Will you eat it?

That's enough to put me off my bag of mussels and oysters I've got on order for my Cornwall break this week Kali2.

If I could wave a magic wand this is one thing I would get done, but as we know, it is dependent on so many other things.

The tendency of many on the Left to see those on the other side of the political debate as inherently bad people — even sometimes as something a bit less than human. It is a dispiriting and destructive approach.

I remembered this quote posted by MOnica yesterday when I read Julie Burchill's article on 'woke' in the Mail on Sunday. The dehumanisation and level of hatred poured out in her article, directed at pretty everyone, showed how angry we are all being made by certain people with a grudge/issues.

This is not a left or a right problem. It's a universal problem.

Well said, Scones and Monica. I am very grateful to Kali2 for raising awareness on this important issue, but do not wish to be part of any anger against anyone.

"The tendency of many on the Left to see those on the other side of the political debate as inherently bad people — even sometimes as something a bit less than human. It is a dispiriting and destructive approach."

... having read some of the comments on social media - and FB in particular - I would say that BOTH sides are very much guilty of this "tendency".

I don't think the Right can claim the moral high ground here - I've heard some pretty scathing, vitriolic comments on the 'Loony' Left, including some quite nasty 'solutions'.

Personally, I think the mistake that both sides make is to assume that both Left and Right are homogenous groups with fixed ideas and dogma - and then go on to vilify each other on that basis.

Scones

*The tendency of many on the Left to see those on the other side of the political debate as inherently bad people — even sometimes as something a bit less than human. It is a dispiriting and destructive approach.*

I remembered this quote posted by MOnica yesterday when I read Julie Burchill's article on 'woke' in the Mail on Sunday. The dehumanisation and level of hatred poured out in her article, directed at pretty everyone, showed how angry we are all being made by certain people with a grudge/issues.

This is not a left or a right problem. It's a universal problem.

I think the quote is unfortunate because it is too much of a generalisation.

I am a voter who would always vote for a political party whose policies supported a comprehensive welfare state, a high degree of social mobility, a commitment to private ownership within a mixed economy and supportive of a social partnership between capital and Labour.

I class myself as a left wing voter.

My critique of our current government will always be because of the mirror I hold up reflecting my political beliefs.

However, some politicians behaviour and rhetoric i find so abhorrent, and not living up to what we as voters are entitled to expect from our political representatives, that yes I criticise them as individuals. Of course I do. It is a ridiculous suggestion that criticism of those behaving badly should cease -

that is not democracy.

Scones

*The tendency of many on the Left to see those on the other side of the political debate as inherently bad people — even sometimes as something a bit less than human. It is a dispiriting and destructive approach.*

I remembered this quote posted by MOnica yesterday when I read Julie Burchill's article on 'woke' in the Mail on Sunday. The dehumanisation and level of hatred poured out in her article, directed at pretty everyone, showed how angry we are all being made by certain people with a grudge/issues.

This is not a left or a right problem. It's a universal problem.

Julie Burchill is on the right. Here is a quote from her last month "any female who has an iota of self-respect would be an idiot to vote for anyone other than the Conservative Party".

It may, or may not be a left/right problem, but Scones' quote starts "The tendency of many on the Left..." So maybe find a better example before congratulating her?

Josianne

Well said, Scones and Monica. I am very grateful to Kali2 for raising awareness on this important issue, but do not wish to be part of any anger against anyone.

Oops sorry it was WWM2 who raised awareness.

Josianne

Josianne

Well said, Scones and Monica. I am very grateful to Kali2 for raising awareness on this important issue, but do not wish to be part of any anger against anyone.

Oops sorry it was WWM2 who raised awareness.

? that’s ok

Agree the use of natural bodies of water as a 'back up' for sewage treatment failure is a scandal. But it is NOT political. We (and most countries in the world) have always dealt with overflows like this and the built sewer system is not adequate for the numbers of human beings now alive.

sandelf

Agree the use of natural bodies of water as a 'back up' for sewage treatment failure is a scandal. But it is NOT political. We (and most countries in the world) have always dealt with overflows like this and the built sewer system is not adequate for the numbers of human beings now alive.

I have to disagree with you there I am afraid.

Political choices has got us exactly to where we are.

Underinvestment in the infrastructure,

Privatisation of our water

Poor regulation

Poor enforcement of the existing if our regulations.

Take our water back into ownership, use the “profit” which is at present being trousered by individuals to rebuild the infrastructure and enforce and beef up the regulations.

My heart always sinks when I hear the government talking about "Robust Measures". People like Boris seem to confuse robust with talking very loudly. They don't seem to grasp the need to actually do something!