EU pro-hijab campaign pulled

Just seen this. The rights and wrongs aside, I hope everyone understand that this was not a European Union idea, but it came from the Council of Europe.

The Council or Europe is a completely separate organisation, and more critically, the UK is still a member of the Council of Europe.

kircubbin2000

Why would you wear a wig?

This is fascinating reading although some of his conclusions about women always doing it by choice might be questionable. forward.com/life/203981/the-complete-history-of-the-sheitel/
I do think the similar customs for covering hair in both Judaism and Islam are interesting.

Why would you wear a wig?

Personally I have no issue with the hijab although I don’t like it on young girls but I do object to the burka.

Purely by the fact that she is with her husband who would be wearing traditional Jewish clothing. So therefore She would be wearing a wig.
I say traditional but that differs as to what sect you belong to.
We have different sects here in Southend and they are very different

Hardly the same. The hijab is visible, the sheitel is assumed because the woman is with her Orthodox husband. If the female was on her own or with other females nobody would be aware of the sheitel.

maddyone

Kali2

welbeck, if France is so secular , why do significant numbers of French families send their kids to Catholic schools, which are State subsidised?

And why do so many people send their children to Catholic schools in England, when Catholic schools in England are State subsidised? And the state religion is Church of England.

A totally different proposition in the UK, as we have total freedom of religion, even if CofE is the one strongly linked to Royalty and Government (House of Lords, etc.).

My point is about France- which is supposed to be secular. And yet some of those who shout 'laïcité' the loudest, send their kids to private, but subsidised Catholic schools- The hyprocrisy is massive, and I'll give you one guess as to why they do so (and it has not much to do with religion, actually. Au contraire!).

I am with France on this one. As far as I am aware there is no religious requirement for women to be covered in such a way. All it shows is their subservience to men in these cultures.

Kali2

welbeck, if France is so secular , why do significant numbers of French families send their kids to Catholic schools, which are State subsidised?

And why do so many people send their children to Catholic schools in England, when Catholic schools in England are State subsidised? And the state religion is Church of England.

tickingbird

How do you know someone’s wearing a wig?

Purely by the fact that she is with her husband who would be wearing traditional Jewish clothing. So therefore She would be wearing a wig.
I say traditional but that differs as to what sect you belong to.
We have different sects here in Southend and they are very different.

VioletSky
Turkey is a secular country. There is no state religion. I know the majority of it’s citizens are Muslim but that does not make the country Muslim as such. The government takes pride in Turkey being secular. France is also secular although the majority of its citizens are Catholic, but again France takes pride in being secular. England however, is not a secular country. Despite the vast majority of its citizens not practicing any religion, the state religion is Church of England and the Queen is the Head of the Church of England.

welbeck, if France is so secular , why do significant numbers of French families send their kids to Catholic schools, which are State subsidised?

How do you know someone’s wearing a wig?

the law in france applies to nuns the same as everyone else.
if they teach in a state school, they cannot do so wearing habits.
these rules apply to govt workers, because in a sense they represent the state, which is strictly secular in france.

Nuns cover their hair for their faith,so do Muslim women,nuns cover their hair to show their devotion to their God ,so do Muslim women,nuns cover their hair to show modesty just like the Muslim women, so whats the problem?

Really? You are want the government to tell you how to dress ?How liberating for you

I'm sure you're right Kali2 . What I saw really gave me heart and I wanted to share it.

That is great Scones-and yes, my comment applies to some girls much more than others.

"Girls in the UK are hugely pressurised to dress to appeal to the boys ... tight, cropped tops and tight jeans."

I live in a small town in a rural area. I honestly never see any sign of this. The young women here seem to wear comfortable, casual things suited to the outdoor nature of the place. You are much more likely to see riding boots than a crop top. These young women look like they mean business and are getting on with life. Even in the evenings I see very little clothing which looks set to please anyone but themselves.

I've spent these last few days in the university area of Bristol which is absolutely packed with young women - baggy cropped trousers, jumpsuits, ankle length coats, checked shirts, sloppy joe jumpers and bobble hats were everywhere. Also sports clothing on young women who were looking as wonderful, strong and powerful as Rosie the Riveter. Bristol University and Netball girls were everywhere in their kit looking like they could take on the world. I have to say a fair few of all the women I'm talking about were wearing headscarves and looked as independent, strong and up for living the fullest life possible on their own terms as you, I or the next girl.

In the evenings I saw pretty dresses with thick tights and DM boots or just more of the same as that worn in the day.

If the young women I see feel any pressure at all it seems they also feel as able as we were in our day to say 'stuff that' and put on exactly what pleases them. Go ALL girls!!!

tickingbird

*Growstuff*. Are you aware of women wearing sheitels? Do you see them everywhere?

tickingbird
I see them all the time. You wouldn’t see them everywhere

Suppose that hats and bonnets are unacceptable too? Afterall, the Amish community wear them. Oh, and headscarves will have to be included because Plymouth Bretheren wear them. My Jewish friend wears a wig, so that her own hair is covered, so that's wigs out. Anything else?

JenniferEccles

I don’t like them as they all represent a kind of oppression of women, a form of control, therefore there is no comparison whatsoever with headscarves worn by western women.

I agree with the decision made by France.

What about nuns?

tickingbird

*Growstuff*. Are you aware of women wearing sheitels? Do you see them everywhere?

1 If I see them, yes.

2 I've rarely seen women wearing a hijab where I live.

I don't really see why it's relevant whether I've seen women with head coverings.

My question was really related to why people don't ever seem to think head coverings in other religions are repressive/ant-feminist, etc.

tickingbird

*Growstuff*. Are you aware of women wearing sheitels? Do you see them everywhere?

I'll have to Google that I'm afraid.
This obsession with covering hair is very strange. Are they afraid of men seeing it?Why?
Amish and brethren type people do it too and some of them never cut their hair.Its a way of being separate as if the rest of us are sinners.

I'm 50/50 on the concept of men controlling women's imagery. Certainly when I was young all that Sun Page 3 stuff was driven by men, but the women who posed had to be complicit. Some women are happy to be judged on their physical appearance alone and don't seem bothered that they are viewed in a one dimensional way by men. . There are women and men who revel in being exhibitionists and what with social media being what it is anyone can have that platform these days. In that I have a certain sympathy for the rationale of those who prefer a certain amount of modesty and not to be judged on their appearance, hence the hijab and if that hasn't been imposed on the wearer but is their choice, it's really up to them.

tickingbird

I don’t agree that men pressurise women to have perfect bodies and faces. Most men don’t like pumped up lips etc. Women pressurise themselves in their desire to attract men - or rather some women.

Who do you think controls the mainstream media, the magazines, the TV programmes, the newspapers?Where do the ideas and images come from that give women the idea that men like certain physical features?