Brexit is dead, it is no more, it has ceased to be - because it has happened. We have withdrawn from the European Union

Not at all MaizieD and I think I probably speak for all us Leave voters who have a degree and a good profession, and all those who don’t when I say ‘That’s ok, say and think whatever you like if it comforts you from being torn away from the EU’
( it’s the least we can do, as we are happy and you apparently are not.)?

It’s great that we have a self appointed spokesperson for “all leave voters with degrees and without”. No need for anyone else to comment.

MaizieD

Well, all this agreement is lovely, but we'll have the Leave voters down on us complaining that we're saying they're thick...

It happened every time the statistics were cited just after the referendum.

I saw a lecture by Professor Danny Dorling on youtube recently. It was from autumn 2019, I think. Certainly pre 2019 GE. Anyway, he has really drilled down into the figures and he found that, contrary to the perception that the 'left behinds' in the North were the largest numbers of Leave voters it was in fact the elderly southern middle classes who comprised the largest number of leave voters. Which I thought was really interesting as I can't exactly understand their motivation.

Sorry, Pippa, wandering again...

Again MaizieD, are you referring to England?

It certainly wasn’t elderly southern middle class in Wales - the Labour voters in south and northeast Wales would be appalled by that description- and as for thinking they’re thick....?

MaizieD Not funny. That people with different levels of education vote differently is a fact. There is no evidence that this reflects their level of intelligence, especially in age groups where post 16 education was far less common when they were at that age.

Well, all this agreement is lovely, but we'll have the Leave voters down on us complaining that we're saying they're thick... grin

They are certainly gullible believing the rubbish in the leave campaign and gave no thought to the consequences of leaving.

Why are you refighting all these old battles? Almost every one of the Brexit posts is a repeat and repeat and repeat of what has been said so many times before. It's even exactly the same people fighting exactly the same battles. It's Goundhog day all over again.

Meanwhile, the world moves on. The least you could do is not hijack a thread trying to move towards what is happening now and in our possible future.

You are all becoming those old people who can only talk about the past, their past, leaving others to metaphorically pat you on the head saying "well, they're very old" to excuse pure bad manners. You seem to feel no agency in what happens going forward. Perhaps that is the truth. If you don't do anything - even as little as find out what is happening and discuss it how can you be part of any changes. And changes will happen whether you like it or not. Whether you had a good "Brexit war" or were one of the resistance will not matter one iota to anyone except you. The young will not care about the phoney war this generation created because they envy their parents.

Never mind, your carers are probably waiting for you. I'm going to leave you today and go and do something useful, so you can happily continue to rake over old battles.

Good to read that Frost has modified his rhetoric and beginning to talk about consensus and the way forward.

Pippa- this is not an 'old' battle - how can it be old, when we still don't know what it is, what it means, the form it will take?

As for your comment about 'carers waiting for you' - really?

Yes, Kali2. It seems everyone has forgotten how to start a thread with a heading and OP that says what the discussion is about.

When you do know more about the negotiations, start a thread and tell us. Perhaps then we can stop having to read, yet again, conversations about the level of people's qualifications for the different votes in the referendum. What has anyone passed on in new knowledge? Why is it okay to disrupt the original OP but say nothing that enlightens anyone?

Yes, I have read and re-read the OP several times, as it was ambiguous. We have discussed the next elections many times here, on several threads, already. Not sure we need another one.

But what caught my eye was about Brexit being dead, like the MP parrot - and I therefore argued, and will repeat, something cannot cease to be when you don't know what it is. I'll stick by it. Brexit is NOT 'done'.

* I'll stick by it. Brexit is NOT 'done'.*

You do make me laugh, Kali2

Thanks for brightening up a gloomy morning.

No matter how many times you say this there truth of the matter is we have left the EU now.

And no amount of capital letters will change this.

Zoejory

* I'll stick by it. Brexit is NOT 'done'.*

You do make me laugh, Kali2

Thanks for brightening up a gloomy morning.

No matter how many times you say this there truth of the matter is we have left the EU now.

And no amount of capital letters will change this.

So given that the government is attempting to re-write the original oven ready deal, then I think that I would also argue that Brexit is not done.

We don’t yet know what the deal will be.

Some good news ? You will be getting your Turkey at Xmas.
The Home Office have processed the visas for EU workers to come and pluck.

MerylStreep

Some good news ? You will be getting your Turkey at Xmas.
The Home Office have processed the visas for EU workers to come and pluck.

I wonder if they'll be any more successful with that than they were with the HGV drivers... According to The Times there were just 27 applications...

MerylStreep

Some good news ? You will be getting your Turkey at Xmas.
The Home Office have processed the visas for EU workers to come and pluck.

Our local farmer has said there never was a problem , local people you see willing to work.

My farmer said the same. But he never needed to employ immigrant Labour as it is such a small enterprise.

It is the huge meat processors that have had the problem, and will continue to do so unless of course the government u-turn - over immigrant labour, which they are as we see quietly doing so already.

Something I learned today.

ALL NI residents retain ALL EU privileges.

I had no idea that was the case.

They must be very concerned that Johnson is possibly intent if stripping them of these.

Brexit isn't dead nor as it ceased to be. The ramifications of it will be lasting for years. I am part of what was the remain alliances now the rejoin alliances and closer ties.

We realise it will take a long time to rejoin however as anything it will take much time and effort as we quietly beaver away in the background on E.U relationships. So much going on you don't know

I wouldn't vote Tony if my life depended on it. I could never vote for a government of the last 11 years who have destroyed our country to make us a tax haven for there greed

Tory not Tony above

I wouldn't vote Tony if my life depended on it. I could never vote for a government of the last 11 years who have destroyed our country to make us a tax haven for there greed

You're not alone, by any means, Keffie12

MaizieD

^I wouldn't vote Tony if my life depended on it. I could never vote for a government of the last 11 years who have destroyed our country to make us a tax haven for there greed^

You're not alone, by any means, Keffie12

Here here

If you are hoping Labour will take us back into the EU Starmer has said otherwise. It’s ironic when you consider one of the reasons Brexit was delayed resulting in the agreement we have was because of the number of times he blocked it.

Forget about rejoining the EU that’s not going to happen, however, if there is a change in government rejoining the European Economic Area is a distinct possibility. Maybe in 5 or 10 yrs time a gradual adoption of EU regulations will take place gradually, if diverging regulations become widespread it will make life more difficult.

It is now blindingly obvious that the EU are not going to change any rules to suit us

25Avalon

If you are hoping Labour will take us back into the EU Starmer has said otherwise. It’s ironic when you consider one of the reasons Brexit was delayed resulting in the agreement we have was because of the number of times he blocked it.

Can I join your mindreading course, Avalon? I am in awe of your ability to read my thoughts not

I, for one, know just what Starmer is saying. It is also patently obvious why he is saying it.

However, 'making Brexit work' couldn't be done without rejoining the Single Market and the Customs Union. This might need incremental steps to achieve, but I think the UK is dead without it. Still not as good as full membership but it restores rights that people are upset to have lost as well as making trade much easier.

Having said that , I don't for one moment think that Starmer is going to say even that, explicitly, it's just what any reasonably intelligent person must see to be obvious.

“If” MaizieD, I said “If”.