Geoffrey Cox

25Avalon

That is very hypocritical WWM2. On one thread you declared all Tory MP’s were scum. I took you up on it and asked if David Amess was scum. Not because I meant any disrespect to David but to demonstrate how wrong it is to tar everyone with the same brush as David was a well liked, well respected constituency MP.

Wrong. I gave a definition of the word to be found in the Cambridge/Oxford dictionaries, and said that I agreed with the definition. “A term to describe bad people”

Of course not all Tories are bad. Rayner was correct to apologise.

But yes I think that some Tories are bad people.

I'm not complaining about your political stance and I know you don't like mine either but I think the comments you made about David Amess were unnecessary and in poor taste.

Germanshepherdsmum

Shame on you Maizie for speaking ill of the dead. And in this case a much loved and hard working man who met a violent end.

I'm not ashamed, Gsm. Just tired of the hypocritical stances being held on here.

Nobody, saint or sinner, deserves a violent end but having met with one doesn't make them immune from criticism.

As I think that really it's what you consider to be my political stance that you object to I'll just clarify that I don't like your political stance very much either.

Shame on you Maizie for speaking ill of the dead. And in this case a much loved and hard working man who met a violent end.

25Avalon

That is very hypocritical WWM2. On one thread you declared all Tory MP’s were scum. I took you up on it and asked if David Amess was scum. Not because I meant any disrespect to David but to demonstrate how wrong it is to tar everyone with the same brush as David was a well liked, well respected constituency MP.

Whatever his sterling qualities as a constituency MP, I cannot get it out of my mind that at this year's local elections Amess leafleted his constituents with the barely veiled threat that funding would be withheld from the council if tories weren't returned. This sort of threat has been repeated all over the country by tory MPs. This is dishonourable behaviour, verging on breaking the law. Bribing electors is illegal.

That is very hypocritical WWM2. On one thread you declared all Tory MP’s were scum. I took you up on it and asked if David Amess was scum. Not because I meant any disrespect to David but to demonstrate how wrong it is to tar everyone with the same brush as David was a well liked, well respected constituency MP.

Can I remind some posters that Angela Raynor issued a statement in which she acknowledged calling MPs in the government had been a mistake.
I wish some members of this government could acknowledge making mistakes. Like Geoffrey Cox, or many others

And now Rees Mogg. Mail on Sunday claims that he broke rules by not declaring £6million that he drew down from his Cayman Island offshore tax dodging company.

M0nica

I am not suggesting you do. Itbis the wholesale abuse of every member or MP of a party that I object to, calling members of the Conservative party 'scum' - and presumably hoping they will change their allegiance and vote labour.

Damning all MPs as if they acted like Cox and Patterson. You know exactly what I referring to in my post WWM1, your response makes me despair of ever getting any rational and reasoned political discussion on GN.

The worst of it is, that it’s attitudes as you describe Monica that lead to aggression towards MP’s and add to the hatred shown in many places online for all politicians who are not in the ‘chosen’ Party. It gets worse and worse on forums.

I dislike this government and I voted Labour in the last election. My previous MP was a Tory and she was great and I voted for her but she was one of the MPs who ended up in another party before the last election.

I can't think of anything positive to say about the current ministers. I will take that back, I thought Nadhim Zahawi did the right think when he admitted the govt had been wrong about the standards debacle and apologised. All the others were making excuses.

Well M0nica, perhaps you could do us the respect of paying attention to what we write.

On at least two occasions I’ve written that I have no objection to people having second jobs, and earning as much as they are able to, my objection is to them not obeying the rules. I think most posters have said something similar. I had a bit of a go at Douglas Ross, who seemed to forget he was a football referee until the country started being concerned about people not declaring their earnings, then he miraculously remembered he had to declare it. And of course that is his third job, because he is an MP and an MSP. Bizarrely, he also seemed to forget that he was an MSP because he didn't declare those earnings either. (Which he donates to charity, good for him)

I don’t expect he’d like to be called SNP, but stranger things have happened.

And although I had to explain something similar yesterday… saying that the majority of sleaze is occurring in the Tory party doesn’t mean that the whole Tory party and all its members are sleazy.

Oh, and incidentally…both parties???

So are you talking about posters on GN or other MPs? And no I don’t know exactly who or what you are talking about.

If your suggestions were less opaque I could perhaps reply to you but as it is I have said that no one on GN called the Tories scum, it was as you well know Rayner of the Labour Party for which she later apologised. I am unclear what exactly you mean.

I think “the wholesale abuse” is over egging the pudding.

However - do I think that there are a number of corrupt Tory MPs? Yes I do.
Do I think that this government is incompetent and without policy? Yes I do.
Do I think that the PM is venal? Yes I do.
Do I think that a number of members of the government are morally bankrupt? Yes I do.

If that is classed as wholesale abuse then so be it.

If you have no wish to engage with me in political debate, then I’m sure I will survive as no doubt will you.

I am not suggesting you do. Itbis the wholesale abuse of every member or MP of a party that I object to, calling members of the Conservative party 'scum' - and presumably hoping they will change their allegiance and vote labour.

Damning all MPs as if they acted like Cox and Patterson. You know exactly what I referring to in my post WWM1, your response makes me despair of ever getting any rational and reasoned political discussion on GN.

Perhaps we could treat those views we disagree with, with the same respect

Good gracious, you seem to have entirely missed the point.

Those MPs who broke the ministerial code, whose greed means that they abused the trust of the tax payer, whose cronyism has lined the pockets of “friends” of the Tory party, whose donations has ensured a peerage or questionable policies favouring donators.

Am I going to agree or respect these views?

Of course I’m not.

With regards to the hyperbole in your post, accusing posters of describing Tory MPs as scum, amongst other things. At one stage on this thread you suggested that people should be more precise in what they post.

Hmmm.

What I dislike more than anything and diminishes my respect for the people concerned is this constant abuse of everyone, especially MPs in the party the poster doesn't support.

Calling people, scum, saying all of one party are dishonest, cheats etc is to turn them into a dehumanised entities. This is how everything from ethnic cleansing, to racism and homophobia start.

Each party and its supporters includes the good, bad and indifferent. Both parties has its share of bad apples and all have their share of members and MPs who devote their time to their constituencies. Is earning a bit of money as a footall referee really a heinous offence that would come between an MP and his constituency.? Can MPs have no outside interests that they pursue in their own time or must MPs work for their constituency every hour they are not sleeping or eating? 15 hours a day, 7 days a week?

Why is no-one condemning those MPs who are members of two legislative houses. If being an MP, SNP, and whatever the others are called is a full time job, why is it considered admirable for someone to do two full time jobs, providing they give the second salary away, but not permissible to chair a tribunal 8 hours a week or do a shift as a doctor?

The deaths of Sir David Amess and James Brokenshire showed us MPs who were dveoted to their constituencies and parties and were liked and respected across all parties.

Perhaps we could treat those views we disagree with, with the same respect.

When Jacinda Ardern was being lauded by the press last year Nicola Sturgeon was asked if SHE would take a pay cut.She told the media that she hasn't taken a pay rise since taking the job so in effect a cut.SNP MP's in WM were told by the then leader of the party in that place to give their rises to charities local to them as it was immoral to take £7000 a year extra when people were struggling .SNP MSP's also donate their pay rises to local charities.

Its called having empathy with the people who vote for them .Feel free to check online if you dont believe me ..

Scones

researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-7483/CBP-7483.pdf

Some facts here about MPs education and occupations. It's a bit dated 2017 but it makes interesting reading all the same.

Thanks for posting that.

Interesting!

There's a big gap between Labour and Conservative MPs educated privately.

However, the gap narrows for university including Oxbridge educated MPs.

I must admit to being stunned about Theresa May's extra earnings.
They come from public speaking!
Does she dance as well?

researchbriefings.files.parliament.uk/documents/CBP-7483/CBP-7483.pdf

Some facts here about MPs education and occupations. It's a bit dated 2017 but it makes interesting reading all the same.

Yeah, those breast surgeons. They just turn up on the day and get going with the scalpel.

frenchie

I think what Lemongrove is telling us is that Tory mps are much more clever than the opposition

That’s your take on it Frenchie
I am saying they likely have jobs that are more in demand....
They may likely be better educated which comes into it as regards to careers.

Twelve MPs who've made an extra £3,500,000 in two years
* Sir Geoffrey Cox – £970,000
* Theresa May – £760,000
* Fiona Bruce – £387,000
* Sajid Javid – £366,000
* Sir John Redwood – £248,000
* Andrew Mitchell – £170,000
* Julian Smith – £144,000
* Sir John Hayes – £118,000
* Stephen Hammond – £103,000
* Mark Garnier – £100,000
* Chris Grayling – £100,000
* Sir Ed Davey – £78,000

Which one is from another Party than Conservatives?

MaizieD

Germanshepherdsmum

Maizie and WWM your comments are beneath you.

I know, but the temptation was just too great.

It wasn’t beneath me. I meant it.

Tory MP who said Marcus Rashford should stick to the day job… has second job.

She spends eight hours per week working for her other employer according to the register of MPs’ financial interests.

inews.co.uk/news/politics/tory-mp-natalie-elphicke-marcus-rashford-second-job-1297017

Germanshepherdsmum

Maizie and WWM your comments are beneath you.

I know, but the temptation was just too great.