BBC quits Stonewall Diversity Scheme

Varian, I’m not disputing that and I suspect MOnica isn’t either. My point is the risks around accepting that every child presenting as trans isn’t given the extensive assessment and support needed. Too narrow focus is risky

This thread has filtered out certain posters.
Now we know.

Knows that he (not she) is a boy

There is a huge difference between a tomboy and a child designated female who knows without doubt that she is a boy.

Yes I heard the interview.
Emma Barnett is doing some excellent work on women’s hour

Did anyone hear Emma Barnett's interview with Prof Kathleen Stock this week? She resigned from her post at a university where she had been a senior lecturer for eighteen years, because she declared her belief that sex and gender were separate things, as a result of which she received considerable abuse.

Quite disgraceful.

MOnica I too am/was spartacus

I wanted to be a boy throughout my childhood. I had very little empathy with other girls. I wanted to be out playing boys games with boys. I am truly, truly grateful that the possiblity of making trans decisions and taking puberty blockers did not exist in my childhood.

Come puberty and it was quite clear that, biologically, I was a straight heterosexual woman and being at one with my biology and hormones, was my predominant driver.

When I hear of young pre-pubescent children making decisions, I almost weep. I would have been quite capable of understanding the problems and effects these drugs would have on me and thinking about it and discussing it intelligently with psychologists, but I would only be a prepubescent child I would have absolutely no knowledge or understanding of how adult sexuality works, how it drives character, desires and personality. There is no way a prepubescent child, however intelligent,, however thoughtful can fully understand the ramifications of adult sexuality.

Thank the Lord, common sense seems to be taking over in the madhouse. Long may it continue.

Thanks for the link SueDonim, grannie duty meant I missed women’s hour. I’ve just listened and enjoyed Emma Barnett’s investigative interview style. She can be a combative interviewer, which was certainly needed during this interview.

I’m increasingly concerned that the approach to children and adolescents presenting with gender dysphoria seems to take it as read that they are trans. The attachment. Psychological, social and emotional factors (to name only a few) factors influencing the confusion and feelings seem to be given much less attention than is needed. Adolescence is such a difficult transition for everyone, much more so if trauma, emotional neglect/any kind of abuse was part of childhood development. There is evidence that a number of females are backing out, or regretting decisions about mastectomy or hysterectomy. The number of females seeking gender support has increased hugely. As well as individual backgrounds, research into societal treatment of females that may be influencing girls is needed

A friend of mine who works on broadcasts for the BBC says that that pause was so long it was the equivalent of a nuclear bomb going off in BBC HQ!

I hope this pack of cards is now collapsing, I really do.

Thanks for that link SueDonim I'd have missed that if you hadn't posted it. I particularly enjoyed the "stumped for a rational response" pause too! Mumsnet has a good discussion going on about this too. They're so proactive and clued up about this; their strong opinions and actions about Stonewall, and how feminism is being eroded by them, it gives me hope for the future.

Silence-are some people busy googling, sorry, researching evidence that this is wrong?

Yes it’s very quiet Doodledog perhaps they’ve not spotted the thread yet?

This is good news, at last some common sense. Stonewall is not the first organisation that may have been well founded and needed but then gone too far in trying to force issues and allowing the fanatics to take over.

Excellent news. The silence is indeed deafening from some posters doodledog

Thanks from me too, SueDonim. That was an excellent interview, and Emma Barnett's frustration shone through. I'm sure that many people who may not have thought through the implications of all of this will have seen from that just how difficult it must have been to maintain journalistic impartiality under the cosh of Stomewall's No Debate rules.

I can't help but notice that the posters who are usually all over these threads are silent on this one, incidentally, and I'm sure I'm not alone in having noticed it. It's a shame, as they have accused posters on threads on trans issues of making them into 'echo chambers', yet this is inevitable if there are no alternative voices being heard, and it would be interesting to hear what people like trisher, VS and GagaJo have to say about this development.

Indeed that almost 4 second pregnant pause is very telling! I especially notice when asked if she should correct the 'pregnant people' phrase he won't advise, can't be asked to make editorial decision instantly on a live broadcast, it's up to her. The fact she's live broadcasting at that point seems not to occur to him. It was a very thorough questioning. Thanks for the link SueDonim.

Emma Barnett skewered the BBC spokesman (I didn’t catch his name) about Stonewall and the BBC. Wait for the ‘pregnant’ pause.

It’s the first item. www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m0011c4v

Excellent news and very glad to hear it. Stonewall outstripped their original mandate a long time ago. The harm they've done to lesbians, gay and academics is incalculable. Good riddance to them.

It is sad to see a movement such as Stonewall which was founded to fight homophobia, Aids prejudice and such, and did such a fine job against the Article 28 proposals end up like this, a narrow minded, non tolerant organisation which allows no debate, no consideration for discussion of difficulties many have in understanding trans gender issues. I am saddened to see such a fine organisation laying itself open to accusations of prejudice, and thus playing straight into the hands of those who are not prepared to consider the difficulties faced by anyone not fitting the standard gender pattern. Well done BBC and others for moving away.

Good news!

If people are interested this subject was discussed in Womans Hour today, I need to listen to it fully but it appears that Emma Barnett was doing some proper investigative journalism. I am quite astounded at what she asked. Some very brave women have got us to where we are today. No debate is well and truly over.

Not at all, Rosie - the more the word is spread the better.

I'm reminded of Operation Yewtree here. The BBC is still recovering from that, and won't want to stand accused of keeping silent when another scandal is going on under its nose.

Time will tell, but I agree with all who have said that it is very encouraging news.

Companies were also paying large sums of money for Stonewall’s education programmes. I think Stonewall has done a lot of good in the past but is now desperately trying to justify its continued existence. For once the BBC has done the right thing.