What is the answer here?

We desperately need more immigrants

www.bigissue.com/news/employment/labour-crisis-the-uk-needs-almost-1-million-people/

"What is the answer here?"

I think the answer is that the developed world has to bang its collective heads together and get to grips with the fact that migrants are an issue that we all have to be involved with.

It cannot be left to any one country - countries like Greece, Italy, etc, to be the gatekeepers.

This is a problem that is not going to go away by being ignored, nor by hand-wringing, nor by immigrant 'bashing'.
Asylum seekers will continue to defect, and economic migrants will continue to leave their impoverished homelands.

The media, too, will have to take a more responsible attitude, and be held to account for the way they report on these problems.

As for our infrastructure being "brought to its knees", this is not something that can be attributed wholly to immigration. Successive governments have continually cut back on the spending that is necessary to maintain a workable foundation under which the country can function efficiently. Both Tory and Labour governments have ignored the realities. Tony Blair - an EU expansionist - allowed a free-for-all entry to East Europeans to this country, when the EU allowed the option of staggering the numbers... because they recognised that member states needed time to build up their infrastructure in order to cope with the numbers. Blair - for whatever reasons - ignored that option. Other EU nations were more cautious.

Controlling borders, housing and vetting immigrants, costs money and time. It cannot be done on a shoestring. It needs the will and the commitment, and the funding.

Spot on Dickens couldn't agree more.

Curlywhirly

Spot on Dickens couldn't agree more.

... thank you.

I like your name. But I now want a Cadbury's 'Curly Wurly'

Do you think we can keep all the people that want to live here?. Many people born and bred here can’t get houses, can never afford one despite working long hours on low paid jobs. The NHS cannot cope as it is now with the number of people requiring treatment. . It is the tax payers that pay for it all. If you are prepared to house a family fine, if not you are saying it’s someone else’s problems.

Och away and stop havering.

If we're that short of houses, have you taken in an old person? A former soldier? A homeless family from down the road?

There's plenty money in this country but we let them spend it on the old boys club or send it offshore to a tax haven.

Don't blame the poor unfortunate people feeling terror or poverty in their own countries. Blame the wicked men and women telling you its not their fault and we're all in this together, whilst squirrelling away their millions.

Actually I do care about this at the moment as one GD+ family tries desperately to get a house. I can blame any government for not producing enough first time buyer houses-or finding a way to stop those they do build being snapped up by those who can work the system and then sell them on at even higher prices.
I don’t begrudge homes for refugees, I’ve watched videos of life in the lands they’re coming from. They are here hoping for a better, safer life, and my GD hasn’t had to face what they have. It’s still hard to hear the cries of house the refugees when people who have grown up here can’t get houses either.

There are quarter of a million empty houses in England alone.

www.bigissue.com/news/housing/how-many-empty-homes-are-there-in-the-uk/

What we need is a government interested in providing good homes for everybody instead of a second home for the privileged.

It's a tough one. I think people arriving on boats, lorries etc should be sent back to the last safe country they passed through. After a few months it would hopefully put traffickers out of business. However, I am not totally against immigration - just illegal immigration. And we should always keep routes for asylum seekers available. I also think that our government should be setting up better, quicker facilities in UK embassies abroad. Prospective asylum seekers and financial immigrants would have access to them before they get here. For people already here, coralled in various centres, the whole process should be speeded up by employing and training more staff. And might I also venture to say that once the "business" of trafficking illegal immigrants into the UK has been significantly reduced, I think there should be an amnesty for all those people that have been trafficked here that are currently living desparate lives under the legal radar. Amongst these people there may very well be enough to ease the shortages for care staff, drivers and other professions. If they are truly here to work, as they profess, then they will be a welcome addition to the workforce, and welcome the opportunity to work, providing employers do not see it as a way of driving down wages again. If they are working they do not need benefits and can pay their way. They come from all walks of life - I remember talking to a cleaner at my local hospital and he had been trained as a doctor in his own country but could not afford to retrain. That is madness when we are crying out for doctors, nurses etc.

Someone else mentioned how many young men there are amongst the illegal immigrants already here and those trying to get here. It's not just young men, there are men of all ages, and very few women. I wonder what happened to the women they abandoned in their home countries? Their mothers, sisters, daughters and wives have been left to fend for themselves in generally misogynistic regimes, caught between warring factions and at huge risk of rape and abuse. I can't help but think of some of those men as cowardly.

"The NHS cannot cope as it is now with the number of people requiring treatment."

I spent four months in two hospitals recently undergoing various procedures in multiple departments. Both hospitals were within areas that are typically representative of the immigrant / native communities in England. The majority of immigrants I saw were among the staff working in these hospitals.

One of the reasons why the NHS cannot cope - apart from the devastating effect of the Pandemic - is because it has not been realistically funded for decades. And because of the changes to the modus operandi which has resulted in staff leaving, or not applying for positions in the first place. The NHS continues to be expected to do more - with less. And no government has ever been honest enough to tell us that, if we want a first class health service, we have to pay for it. Taxation is seen as an 'evil' and no government will risk their popularity by increasing it. Successive governments get into power and then deal with the problems with short-term answers - which seem only to increase the burden of the already over-burdening of staff with yet more paperwork and admin.

Yes, immigration contributes to financial pressures on the NHS, but the impact is small compared to other factors. The biggest additional costs born by the institution are those which stem from an ageing population.

The problems arising from immigration will not be answered by individuals sponsoring an immigrant family into their homes. Do you suggest the answer to homelessness is for people to take in a homeless person, or an ex-serviceman? No, you don't, because it is not a realistic proposal.

The problems created by mass immigration - anywhere - is for governments to get their act together and deal with the issues on a world-wide basis, realistically and pragmatically. We have been actively involved in de-stabilising some of those countries that immigrants flee from due to our involvement in the running of those countries. The changes in Climate will also cause an exodus of immigrants.

The problem's here to stay, and it won't be solved by your suggestion. Taking in an immigrant - or indeed a homeless person, is a charitable gesture, but most people cannot do it - even if they wanted to, for practical reasons. We pay governments to deal with these issues, and that's what they should be doing. All parties should be working together on this.

Ultimately their own countries need to be made better places to live in. A lot are fleeing from war zones which have turned their countries into desolate violent poverty stricken places.

I would like to comment on the assertion that they men coming here are "cowardly". This is based on a complete misunderstanding of the whole situation.

It seems to be that you think all these single men have left their families behind in dire circumstances just to save their own skin and make a packet in a foreign country.

I am reminded of the large numbers of my own family in the past 150-200 years who left Scotland, with and without their dependents, to go and make new lives in the US, Canada, Australia, wherever. Sometimes their families followed, sometimes they didn't. I find the suggestion quite offensive that any migrant is cowardly, for trying to improve their own life and that of their families.

Too many spelling errors to correct this morning...but you know what I mean

With over 700 thousand resettling in uk in one year, 280 thousand homeless already and 250thousand empty homes you can see how the figures add up. Walk round any town youngsters, could be your grandchildren sleeping on pavements, it breaks your heart. They need hostels and help, there are not enough. NHS treat that many different illnesses now some exceptionally costly, ivf, one round over £5000 . The strain on the nhs is too great, not what us was designed for all those years ago. My husband had cancer treatment unheard of 20 years ago. What we are doing us unsustainable, when it’s gone its truly gone. Look after whom we have that’s breaking.

I agree with every word of your post Dickens.

The increase in the population of the UK went up by 284,000 last year. People emigrate.

The strain on the NHS is huge. Maybe we could run it better and use the skills of the people who come here to help us do that?

Your ideas have no basis whatsoever in fact. And I don't have any grandchildren.

Surely the system is too slow. Asylum seekers spend years waiting for a decision. I think I’m right in saying that they are unable to work during this process. Asylum should be granted or not much more quickly, then people would be able to work, or return to their country of origin if asylum is not applicable. The process is too slow. We need workers and they’re not allowed to work. Crazy.

We need to prioritise enabling refugees to settle here and work ASAP.

I do totally agree with you Allsorts even down to the expensive cancer treatment, add to that one hip replacement + another in the pipeline and probably more to come on the cancer front. All this in the last ten years and yes I do have much loved grandchildren, one of whom has just moved into a tiny flat costing her and her young man a small fortune. I do worry for all three of them.

Nobody should be sleeping on the pavement whether they are UK born, immigrants or refugees.

One of the few things that our awful government did well in the last two years was to get people off the streets when covid struck.

Some of the poor folk who were moved from the street to a hostel or hotel said they thought they'd died and gone to heaven.

It proved that if there is political will it can be done.

Pritti Patel over in Greece.
She has been impressed by the way in which Greece has digitised its asylum application process from start to finish to track cases, speed up decisions and save millions on unnecessary paperwork.

We have the technology. It high time we harnessed it. Greece has set up camps on Samos, proving food, shelter and medical provision.. At last. A plan perhaps.

Apparently on Samos, the asylum seekers are given an 8pm curfew to return or face punishment for breaching the rules. Migrants can leave the camp but only if they use their fingerprints to pass through steel turnstile checkpoints so the camp authorities know who is on site at all times.

Surely this is a good system? Fair to all.

Under international law, asylum seekers cannot be detained and must be free to leave but our Home Office officials believe they could impose conditions to prevent them from absconding. Migrants would be incentivised to comply because breaches could be taken into account as part of their asylum application.

And using a digital app like the Greek system, so that migrants can check their status during application surely must be less stressful for them too? No one likes hanging around wondering what’s going on. It causes frustration and resentment. Communication is key and this system facilitates that.

maddyone: 'Surely the system is too slow?' - exactly - the system here is broken and needs fixing asap. I don't like the victim blaming. It's often assumed that refugees have 'no right' to come here, when actually, they do:

'people who enter the UK by illegal means can legitimately make a claim for asylum, even after passing through other “safe” countries, provided they do so directly after arriving'

fullfact.org/immigration/can-refugees-enter-uk-illegally/

So here we have quotes from Kevin Saunders, former chief immigration officer for the UK Border Force:
* the UK is very attractive to migrants because people know they're not going to be removed once they arrive.
*It's a real worry because we don't know who people are, because they destroy all their documents, they don't give us their right names, where they come from, or anything along those lines.
* 'The biggest draw is these people know everything in the United Kingdom is free, they are going to get education, medical treatment, money, accommodation, it's all a big, big draw.
* 'How many was it that we removed this year, was it five? Some 30,000 arrived and we removed five - not very good really, is it? They know that once they're in the UK they've won the jackpot.
* The most effective way would be to take all the people who have arrived in the UK to an offshore processing centre and deal with it offshore.

Sarnia you are right. How can this go on. People must be absolutely desperate to try to get here. The answer is to help them in their own countries. We need to be sending assistance to countries/people in need. Of course we can't do it all but neither can we accept thousands of people, some of whom may be a threat to us. Where are they to go? How can we possibly house them all? I have heard that the smugglers tell them that Britain is like paradise and will welcome them.