UK ‘dangerously close to elected dictatorship’ under Boris Johnson, Ken Clarke warns

lemongrove

At present there is no appeals process.

Whose authority are you quoting here, lemon. Or is this your opinion?

What there is, is a very complicated set of rules if an MP wants to challenge, not a straightforward appeals process.

At present there is no appeals process.

lemongrove

I don’t agree at all ( regarding Johnson and Paterson) there is an argument for an appeals process, but now isn’t the time for it.
Paterson has to take his medicine.
Now....in a real dictatorship ( elected or otherwise) Johnson would have got his way.

There is an appeals process. Even Johnson admitted he was wrong to say there wasn't. This was when he was questioned at the Liaison Committee meeting yesterday.

lemongrove

I don’t agree at all ( regarding Johnson and Paterson) there is an argument for an appeals process, but now isn’t the time for it.
Paterson has to take his medicine.
Now....in a real dictatorship ( elected or otherwise) Johnson would have got his way.

I agree regarding a legitimate appeals process.

MayBee70 whoever the governing party is a strong opposition is necessary to hold them to account.

I don’t agree at all ( regarding Johnson and Paterson) there is an argument for an appeals process, but now isn’t the time for it.
Paterson has to take his medicine.
Now....in a real dictatorship ( elected or otherwise) Johnson would have got his way.

Gagajo there was at least one thread lauding Mr.Cummings for turning on Mr.Johnson.

lemongrove

If Starmer wins a ‘dictator like majority’ Maybee will that be acceptable I wonder?

No. The problem for the past few years is that we’ve had a very weak opposition. It’s dangerous for any country to be in that sort of position as the party in power always needs to be held to account. By the way, you haven’t responded to what I said about Johnson, yet again, trying to ignore/overrule the law of the land so I assume you agree with what he did last week regarding Paterson….

GrannyGravy13

Not just Mr.Clarke, Mr.Cummings was flavour of the week a while back, in fact any one who writes/tweets/podcasts/interviews anything against the PM and current Government is immediately lauded by any GN member who didn’t vote for the party in power.

I am probably wrong, but I don't remember any of the left-wingers on here liking Cummings any better for being a turn coat. He's repulsive whether he's pro Johnson or not.

Well said GG13 ???

Whether or not we believe the UK is dangerously close to an elective dictatorship, it is 50 years since Lord Hailsham highlighted how our system could allow this.

After half a century surely no harm could come from seriously considering this matter again, evaluating risk and strengthening preventative measures if necessary.

I found this article very relevant to the conversation we are having here blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2019/09/30/we-are-closer-than-ever-to-hailshams-elective-dictatorship/

lemongrove

If Starmer wins a ‘dictator like majority’ Maybee will that be acceptable I wonder?

Labour doesn't work that way LG. I'm no Starmer fan, but he's an egalitarian. Can't see anyone ever saying that about Johnson. He's an elitist through and through, despite not having earned an iota of it.

If Starmer wins a ‘dictator like majority’ Maybee will that be acceptable I wonder?

Not just Mr.Clarke, Mr.Cummings was flavour of the week a while back, in fact any one who writes/tweets/podcasts/interviews anything against the PM and current Government is immediately lauded by any GN member who didn’t vote for the party in power.

lemongrove

That’s fine by me barmey ?we are all free to ignore or dismiss other poster’s offerings ( I do that all the time.)
Hello Jabberwok?? I see you have recaptured the missing B!
Now if only Calistemon can do the same with her missing L.
That’s true Elegran ( regarding Clarke) as even a stopped clock is right twice a day, but as well as him being a self regarding pompous twerp, I think he is wrong about a parliamentary dictatorship, it’s simply having a huge majority that gives confidence, but MP’s don’t have to go along with anything Johnson says or does.

Methinks they were whipped into voting to support Paterson last week were they not? Even though many of them felt they were doing the wrong thing. Even with the abstentions it was passed by Parliament thanks to the dictator like majority Johnson has. Or is my memory playing tricks.

Does anyone remember a few years ago a couple of posters constantly demanded homework ( a thesis!) from others to explain their opinions/ points of view?Well....let’s not go back down that rabbit hole.
People now listening to Clarke and repeating his overblown words as if he is the Messiah just amaze me.
But....that’s their opinion which they are entitled to.

MaizieD You pull intellectual rank all the time?and as you know, anyone can say anything about their academic prowess on forums.
I take it all with a pinch of salt.

That’s fine by me barmey ?we are all free to ignore or dismiss other poster’s offerings ( I do that all the time.)
Hello Jabberwok?? I see you have recaptured the missing B!
Now if only Calistemon can do the same with her missing L.
That’s true Elegran ( regarding Clarke) as even a stopped clock is right twice a day, but as well as him being a self regarding pompous twerp, I think he is wrong about a parliamentary dictatorship, it’s simply having a huge majority that gives confidence, but MP’s don’t have to go along with anything Johnson says or does.

Those who say they can't stand Ken Clarke should bear in mind that it is still likely that, however much they didn't like his views on other matters, he can still recognise a swing toward an elected dictatorship when he sees it. Others have seen the trend towards it before now, including on this forum. There have been systematic moves to emasculate or completely bypass no end of safeguards against the checks and balances that make democracy work. Have they, for instance, forgotten the legal issue of the proroguing of Parliament so as to avoid a proper free discussion of Brexit?

Jabberwok

Ouch! Ignorant? Well better than being pompous!

You know, Jabberwok, you often post very knowledgably about history. Does anyone challenge you? Accuse you of being 'intellectual? Imply that you don't know any better than anyone else?

We assume that you have studied the subject and that you know what you are talking about.

Well, if someone implies that I don't know any more than they do (and it's not for the first time,) then I feel I have to say just why I know what I know. Not pulling intellectual rank, just saying.

Now, if you and lemon and Ug would like to explain the British constitution to us and show us where people talking of elective dictatorships, or just dictatorships, are wrong, then we'll be happy to read it. Sneering and accusations of bullying aren't responses worth respecting.

Certainly not!

Une énorme frite sur l'épaule, pour sûr!

Ouch! Ignorant? Well better than being pompous!

Jabberwok

I think certain people are piling in on you Lemon in order to out gun you! I totally agree with your eminently sensible posts,but then I'm almost certainly one of those ignorant voters that are clearly so despised by the intellectual left. Its the lack of any degree that's the give away. 5 GCE's, (no maths) and one A Level just doesn't cut it! Shouldn't really be allowed to vote, but there it is!

You don't do yourselves any favours by posts like this, you know. Just look ignorant.