Second home owners in Wales face soaring council tax bills after Labour-Plaid deal.

Urmstongran

We spent a family holiday over 30y in beautiful Salcombe ❤️
We thought then it was VERY posh.
We didn’t (don’t) have much money but quietly enjoyed eavesdropping conversations between rich folk and feeling somewhat inferior. Which was daft really.

Life’s rich tapestry eh?

Some of my nineteenth century ancestors lived in Salcombe. I identified the house they all lived in. They were poor fishing families and eventually the younger members of the family drifted to London for work and better pay. I used to have a dream about retiring to Salcombe ... until I saw the prices! If anybody had ever told my ancestors how much their house would be worth in the future, they wouldn't have believed it.

I am glad they are being taxed. They are pricing young people out of the housing market with their greed. I think they should have a rule in certain communities that only local people can purchase the houses. That would stop the greedy vultures with their second homes.

When we moved to Devon some houses here for sale were only available to locals with roots in the county. Its called the Devon Covenant. Now there is very little for sale anywhere around here. There are apartments but very few houses for sale unless you are looking for 4/5 bedrooms at an astronomical price. Second homes often provide tourist accommodation and without this many small towns and villages would die. Perhaps other counties should have this Covenant to help locals.

How did that work, sazz1?

Whilst I am very much in favour of pulling back on the number of holiday home (or lets) and Air B&Bs, I am not so keen on pretty places ring-fencing sales to those lucky enough to have been born there. What about people born in grotty areas? Are they doomed to stay in less desirable places as all the good ones have decided they are not welcome?

That's very judgemental songstress, what about "the greedy vultures" who are quite happy to sell their property to those looking for second homes. Surely it cuts both way?

It meant that unless you lived in Devon you couldn't view any property that was under the Devon Covenant. They seemed to be ex local authority housing which were very good value but we were barred from viewing or buying

Not before time!
It does need very careful sorting out but surely it is immoral to own two houses when so many have none?

www.southhams.gov.uk/article/3545/Designated-Rural-Area-Restrictive-Covenants-S157
Found a link
It says lived or worked for 3 years in the area

I was told I'd not be offered any jobs in Devon 50+ years ago, sazz1, because I was a furriner - this was by the person in charge of HR at a large Council. "You want to take jobs away from Devon people".
Obviously no local people were suitable because I did get offered jobs.
If people move there for jobs where are they supposed to live?

I understand the problem with holiday homes but I thought Devon had moved on from those days.

Interesting but having covenants and a selection procedure for purchasing property sounds divisive and pretty dodgy to me. So what about if you start stipulating no gay people, no disabled people can buy in this village?

Many properties for sale in our coastal town often start with lines "would make an ideal holiday home" in their description, so the vendor and the estate agents are greatly contributing to this trend too.

I understand the arguments on both sides of this conundrum but have having experienced homelessness as a teenager I cannot but side with those who feel that while so many people don’t have a home it is not reasonable to have two. Simplistic but heartfelt on my part.

I am glad they are putting up council tax for second home owners, because they are pricing local people out of the housing market. I hope they stop letting outsiders buy second homes. Give locals a chance I say. The second home owners bring NO revenue to the holiday home village as they bring in their own provisions, and they never shop locally. They are lining their pockets at the expense of local people. Bring on the extra council tax I say!

Anyone here who has a sympathetic view on this thread is a second home owner!

How many people who have criticised second home owning have stayed in holiday cottages and plan to do so in the future? I suggest they stay in a chalet or a caravan in future. I do understand there is a problem but it seems wrong to say people who live and work in towns shouldn’t be able to aspire to being able to have somewhere rural to go to to wind down are doing something bad. I’ve mentioned this before but where we have a second home the majority of the properties in the village are owned by the local landowner plus a few rich locals who own many properties. The landowner does rent many of his out to local people. We are very much part of the community here: DH has lived here in the past and has had a property here for @ 40 years. We spend a great deal of our time here, more so since the pandemic started. When not here friends and family stay here, many of whom use it to unwind due to having stressful jobs. We still have a house near to the children and grandchildren because in normal times we used to help look after the grandchildren: also, if we get old and infirm it’s better that we live closer to them. As a family we’ve all contributed to society and, in the case of the children pay a lot in taxes. Maybe we’re the exception rather than the rule but we are fully integrated in our second home village. We’ve had a few bad times in our lives and this is our haven, even more so at the moment. I lived in Cornwall in the 70’s: season work in the summer and then we’d all rent the summer holiday let’s throughout the winter ( people tended not to have winter holidays back then and the rental in the winter was cheap) . Most young people back then moved away from Cornwall anyway as there wasn’t enough work to keep them there. Surely the problem is successive governments not building enough affordable housing, selling off council houses, turning a blind eye to inscrutable landlords etc. and second home owners are being made into scapegoats? Again, I ‘m not saying there isn’t a problem that needs looking at. We do pay full councils tax here, something that changed when we had the last Labour government I believe. Prior to that it was a reduced amount.

GraceQuirrel

Anyone here who has a sympathetic view on this thread is a second home owner!

And?

Well, that's a point of view, but with respect it is very much from the perspective of what a second home owner wants, rather then what is best for everyone. You have ignored the impact of second homes/holiday cottages/Air B&Bs on villages which are empty all winter, and the fact that in order to build enough homes for everyone to have one when some have two or more, green and brown belts will be eroded even more.

In my hometown, for instance, it seems that every blade of grass has a house on it - new estates are springing up all round what used to be a small town. The result of this is that schools, doctors and dentists are over-subscribed, the roads are choked with cars, and even the sewage system is under strain. Ok if you have somewhere rural to wind down in; but most people don't (and if they did, the problem of overcrowding would be even worse).

I don’t think that houses should be built on green field land but brownfield if possible. DH has just me that the local landowner is now, in fact, renting out his properties as holiday let’s and not to local people. But maybe there wasn’t the demand from local people to rent long term? I’ll ask him when I see him.

Surely the simplest thing to do would be to set a quota for what proportion of homes can be second homes. This could vary from area to area, dependent on where it is.

It could possible be in two groups. In high tourism areas the majority would have to be let out and occupied for a minimum number of weeks each year, else where houses being owned by second home owners would not have the requirement for commercial letting.

Holiday lets are much more lucrative than long term rentals, which is why young locals have to move out of the area they were born.

I don’t think equating a holiday let to a second home is comparing like with like though, because holiday lets are rented for most weeks of the year, whereas second homes are for the exclusive use of the owner and whoever they choose to rent to, so stand empty for a number of weeks each year.

I can understand why people try to justify their own personal circumstances as special, we would all think that. What this is about from the Welsh Government’s perspective though is to ensure that the contribution made by second home owners to the local economy is sufficient to enable communities to thrive, and for locals to be able to afford to live where they were brought up. It doesn’t preclude anybody from buying a house to live in as their primary residence wherever they like.

I feel like I'be been banished to the caravan

Casdon The reason I separated holiday lets from second homes is that, while they should be grouped together in that both take houses from the lcoal housing market and drive prices up. In popular areas, holiday lets by being occupied for longer periods of time, do bring money and jobs into the area, while second homes are occupied for shorter periods so contribute little to the local economy.

In areas where tourism is not such a large part of the economy this matters less.

However, I do think that the best approach is to limit the number of houses than can be owned as holiday or second homes.

In Wales purchases of a second home since 2018 has already meant an additional amount of land tax of 4%. This rises to 9% for £250,000 plus. My partner bought in Wales a few years ago and lives there as his main residence. A lot of the properties are derelict and in need of serious renovation as people have died and in some instances, never maintained the properties, I’m not sure why.
Differently I lived in Berkshire, commuter town, prices high and many young people cannot afford to buy or rent. Developers create a new housing estate where the minimum prices are over £300,000 and they somehow are able to renege on their pledge to build affordable social housing.
Who is right? Both prevent young people from buying or renting. There is no answer I can see that will work, and everyone has different opinions and thoughts.

I’ve just finished reading Nick Hornby’s ‘How to be Good’ and, even though I’ve struggled with it a bit it has given me food for thought regarding this thread ie does owning a second home but having spent most of my adult life trying to contribute to society as much as possible still make me worse than just about everyone else that doesn’t own a second home? ( I do guilt very easily!)

I suppose that depends on whether you think that just about everyone else doesn't contribute to society.

Monica we are saying the same thing, holiday lets are necessary for the tourist economy, I’d also prefer to see more holiday lets than second homes, but there should be limits as a percent of the number of homes available if villages are to thrive in future.

I was interested to hear your comment about there being lots of derelict and neglected houses in Wales Mattsmum2, are you referring to a specific area? I’m in the Brecon Beacons, and they are a rarity here these days, but maybe there are such properties in good supply somewhere else.