Southerners and Northerners are paying higher taxes, but only the Southerners are benefiting.

Maybe this polarisation of views is the problem? Lines are drawn. Nuance and grey areas are much less apparent. We are pitted against one another. Our tribe against yours.

Boomers -v- snowflakes
Brexiteers -v- Remainiacs

Other examples abound, but you get my drift.

My Aunt had to go into a care home a couple of years ago. She was single, had worked all her life, owned a small flat and had a few thousand saved up. The fees for the home were over £4,500 a month which had to come out of her own money. When visiting her one day she was sat in the "lounge" next to a rather loud man who insisted on contributing to our conversation and was boasting that he had never worked a day in his life because he knew how to "screw the system" when in fact he just couldn't be bothered getting out of bed in the morning. He was extremely proud of the fact that he had never worked, owned a property etc. and gloated over the fact that now all his care fees were being picked up by the state.
Doesn't seem very fair to me

Whitewavemark2

Of course there is the added factor that those with the highest value properties will largely be able to afford care without having to dip into their property value, thus leaving 100% to their heirs.

I don't think that is true as many elderly people may have a home which has risen in value but have a relatively low income and savings.

It's not as simple as a North/South divide and I don't think it is helpful to make up it so.

Sashabel my relative is being charged £1,600 per week, if extra 1:1 nursing care is needed up this will be an extra £3,000 per week on top of that.
She had a small property and some savings but it will not last much longer at that rate.

Urmstongran

Maybe this polarisation of views is the problem? Lines are drawn. Nuance and grey areas are much less apparent. We are pitted against one another. Our tribe against yours.

Boomers -v- snowflakes
Brexiteers -v- Remainiacs

Other examples abound, but you get my drift.

Yes, and I’m sick of it.
Too much division and hostility between people right now.
Plenty of low income and low priced housing in many parts of the country in any case, certainly not a North/South divide.

The average property price in London region is £656k.

The average property price in Hatlepool is £146k

Five of the most affordable areas in Scotland have average house prices under £65k

No north/south divide?

I couldn’t afford to live in several parts of the North and neither could I afford to live in several parts of the South.
Average prices mean nothing.

This might illuminate your thinking lemongrove.
inequalitybriefing.org/graphics/briefing_43_UK_regions_poorest_North_Europe.pdf

Just what I knew already Casdon but my comments still stand....there are very expensive parts of the country in all regions, North Yorkshire and Cheshire just two places.
In Cornwall there are poorer places and some that you need upwards of half a million, and so on and so forth.
To fondly imagine that ‘The North’ is a poor old place is simply not true.

lemongrove?
Is being one of the poorest regions in Europe not a qualifier for being ‘a poor old place’ as you put it? Having some expensive houses does not detract from the reality of the relative wealth of a region.

For once I agree with lemongrove (to an extent). It's not about a north/south divide. It's a about a rich/poor divide. It just so happens that most of the people with low value housing live in certain areas, mainly in the north.

growstuff

For once I agree with lemongrove (to an extent). It's not about a north/south divide. It's a about a rich/poor divide. It just so happens that most of the people with low value housing live in certain areas, mainly in the north.

Of course it is! But property wealth resides in the South, that is the point.

Poverty or relatively less wealthy exists throughout the country but you simply cant ignore the point that we are all paying the same % tax but the property owner in the south is paying less as
a % of her property than the property owner in the north.

Tory MPs understand the potential ramifications of what Johnson has done. All they have to hope is that any future government tweaks the bill.

lemongrove

I couldn’t afford to live in several parts of the North and neither could I afford to live in several parts of the South.
Average prices mean nothing.

Average price, or any average properly calculated, is meaningful to those of us who are interested in facts .

varian

The average property price in London region is £656k.

The average property price in Hatlepool is £146k

Five of the most affordable areas in Scotland have average house prices under £65k

No north/south divide?

These proposals would just affect England, I think varian

If there were to be means testing instead do you think it would be fairer?

Average house prices are key, surely. If 100 people need care in a poor area, and 100 people in a rich area, for example you would have 85 of them in the poor area spending all they have, compared with say 15 in a rich area. Of course it’s relative, but overall a far higher proportion in a poor area lose out.

When is the country going to realise that the prime ministers
EATONOMICS only works for those blinkered individuals who attended Eaton.

Casdon

Average house prices are key, surely. If 100 people need care in a poor area, and 100 people in a rich area, for example you would have 85 of them in the poor area spending all they have, compared with say 15 in a rich area. Of course it’s relative, but overall a far higher proportion in a poor area lose out.

Yes, but that's no help to you as an individual if you're poor in a rich area. It shouldn't be about which area you live in, but individual circumstances.

varian

lemongrove

I couldn’t afford to live in several parts of the North and neither could I afford to live in several parts of the South.
Average prices mean nothing.

Average price, or any average properly calculated, is meaningful to those of us who are interested in facts .

Sure, but it's not helpful to individuals.

Whitewavemark2

growstuff

For once I agree with lemongrove (to an extent). It's not about a north/south divide. It's a about a rich/poor divide. It just so happens that most of the people with low value housing live in certain areas, mainly in the north.

Of course it is! But property wealth resides in the South, that is the point.

Poverty or relatively less wealthy exists throughout the country but you simply cant ignore the point that we are all paying the same % tax but the property owner in the south is paying less as
a % of her property than the property owner in the north.

I agree, but it's not just a north/south divide. It's a poverty/wealth divide.

I’m not the first to say that many people have benefited hugely from house price inflation but have very little savings, and it’s not the people going into care who lose out by having to sell their house, which they are never going back to, but their heirs. Rich and poor will receive the same care, unless of course the rich elect to live in a really ritzy care home. So is this really an argument about inheritance?

I can’t see why people who are well off should be kept in the manner to which they are accustomed. That is unfair.

I live in a very wealthy town, but I'm as poor as a church mouse and don't even own a property. I still pay the same tax rates as my wealthier neighbours. That's my point. I'm fed up with tribal divisiveness and people from one "group" being set against people from another "group", based on age, location, ethnic background or whatever.

My area actually loses out on all sorts of grants for deprived areas, which is fine if averages are considered. However, it does mean that poorer people lose some of the facilities which would be available in poorer areas. I expect people know (or maybe they don't) that council tax isn't spent by the "home" councils - it's paid into a central pot and redistributed. My council pays in more than it receives from central government. I'm OK with that, but I do get miffed that people think everybody in wealthy areas is rich.

Germanshepherdsmum

I’m not the first to say that many people have benefited hugely from house price inflation but have very little savings, and it’s not the people going into care who lose out by having to sell their house, which they are never going back to, but their heirs. Rich and poor will receive the same care, unless of course the rich elect to live in a really ritzy care home. So is this really an argument about inheritance?

Of course it is.